Old Strat Pickups

[verhoevenc]

A friend of mine is interested in having me re-wind some non-functioning old strat pickups that her father said came with the guitar when he bought it off a friend back in college (LONG time ago as she's late 20s). Either way, there's something that are confusing me... I took some pics in hopes you guys might help. This is the one that I find most interesting:


It looks to be an early one judging by the grey bottom and what looks to be PE wire. However, the leads are plastic, not cloth? Serial number tell anyone anything?

This one is supposidly from around the same time... but very different. Not really hugely interested in this one, just though I'd put the pic up to complete the story.
Thanks,
Chris

[copperheadroads]

I believe Fender changed to plastic covered wire in '69
Here's something i was reading -
"Toward the end of the 60s the wiring from the grey backs changes to green and yellow.
Then, a short time later, between late 1968 and early 1969, the grey backs changed again and the bobbin became a darker grey with a 3-to-6 digit code stamped in black on the bottom and the green and yellow linen wrapped wire is replaced by black and white plastic covered wires. From the introduction of these changes, Strat pickups will essentially stay the same through the end of the staggered pole era, usually considered late 1974 or early 1975."

[verhoevenc]

Then where does that place a staggered pole, none grey-bottom pickup with white and black cloth covered wire??? With what appears to be formvar? Also, the formvar is an obviously hotter coil too. I can't measure since they're broken, but it's definitely a larger/hotter coil.
Chris

[copperheadroads]

That one looks like an early pre CBS pickup ,
Does that on have cloth covered leads ? in the photo the flatwork looks more sanded rounder ,how about the serial number on that one ? stamp or written.............. need more pics

[verhoevenc]

I don't particularly remember noticing a serial number on the bottom like I did on the grey-bottom... but that could simply be because it has a black bottom hahaha. The second pickup definitely does have cloth leads. I don't have any more pics, but I'll try and get some next time I've got 'um in my hands. I said I would try and get more info before messing with them. I don't want to make a poor choice on resistance, wire type, etc. that will hurt the value (if either really have any?)
Chris

[copperheadroads]

Id say that one is from the Golden era
1950 to March 1964: all models had "black bottom" pickups and cast slug alnico magnets with rounded top edges. Pickups not dated. Pickup wire is usually a real rich cooper color. Pickups are dipped in hot wax to eliminate microphonics, and this wax is evident on the entire pickup. Also the pickup screw "springs" are made out of rubber surgical tubing cut into small 3/8" long pieces.

[verhoevenc]

There's apparently a 3rd rustling around her house too hahaha. She's got the guitar still as well. It was her "first guitar". That said, as evidenced by the three extra pickups that came with it, the guitar saw a lot of modification before her father even got his hands on it back in college. Apparently the previous owner was a fan of pickup swaps, etc. I found a pretty good site that gives year-to-wire-type information as well as average resistance measures, so I should be able to reproduce the coils accurately. Sadly, this means I'm going to have to pick up some PE wire... and god knows she doesn't have the money to pay for the entire spool I'm gunna have to get hahaha.
Thanks copperheadroads!
Chris

[copperheadroads]

Yes i hear you , the only place to find small spools of PE is Mojo
but who knows ? you might be able to repair without rewinding ,maybe peeling off a few hundred turns

[the great waldo]

Yes i hear you , the only place to find small spools of PE is Mojo
but who knows ? you might be able to repair without rewinding ,maybe peeling off a few hundred turns

Hi All
I just had 3 grey bottoms to rewind, luckily 2 were just bad connections at the eyelets the other one took a couple of rewinds to get the coil in the same ball park, I think the tpl was fairly high on the originals (machine wound?). The wire on the broken spool was a little redder/lighter than the other 2

cheers all

Andrew

[David Schwab]

Also, the formvar is an obviously hotter coil too. I can't measure since they're broken, but it's definitely a larger/hotter coil.
Chris

It's larger because it's heavy formvar, with thicker insulation. So the coil is larger, but that doesn't mean it's hotter.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Ha Ha! Grey bottom pickup is 1972. Before rewinding, try heating the eylets and when cool, dunking the whole thing in alcohol for a little while.
The other pickup looks to be 1962. These pickups are usually repairable by warming, carefully removing the top and working on the coil from inside.
For value, a working 62 is about $750, a non working original one about £350, a rewound one about $250
The 72 is worth about $200 is original working condition, $85 in original non-working condition and about the same rewound.

Here's some 73's Fender Stratocaster 1973 Vintage Grey Bottom Pickups | eBay

You can find them for much more on ebay but I sold a bunch of this stuff earlier this year and the prices people would pay was pretty much what I wrote above.

P.S. If you're not too interested in the 62, you can send it to me! Also in case anyone is wondering how to narrow it down to 62 from that photo, the amount of black on the coil, the chamfer size (64 had tumbled magnets not bevelled and other years had smaller chamfers), the roughness, or lack of on the sides of the magnets where they protrude etc... etc... make this most likely 62/63. A better look at the flatwork would nail when it was made.

[copperheadroads]

Ha Ha! Grey bottom pickup is 1972. Before rewinding, try heating the eylets and when cool, dunking the whole thing in alcohol for a little while.
The other pickup looks to be 1962. These pickups are usually repairable by warming, carefully removing the top and working on the coil from inside.
For value, a working 62 is about $750, a non working original one about £350, a rewound one about $250
The 72 is worth about $200 is original working condition, $85 in original non-working condition and about the same rewound.

Here's some 73's Fender Stratocaster 1973 Vintage Grey Bottom Pickups | eBay

You can find them for much more on ebay but I sold a bunch of this stuff earlier this year and the prices people would pay was pretty much what I wrote above.

P.S. If you're not too interested in the 62, you can send it to me! Also in case anyone is wondering how to narrow it down to 62 from that photo, the amount of black on the coil, the chamfer size (64 had tumbled magnets not bevelled and other years had smaller chamfers), the roughness, or lack of on the sides of the magnets where they protrude etc... etc... make this most likely 62/63. A better look at the flatwork would nail when it was made.

Somebody is loosing there Accent

[verhoevenc]

So, a little update: The current plan is this:
I just tried the grey-bottom here at my place and it's working fine?! Maybe I was out of it the other day when I tried it at her place, but it makes sound just fine. I'll test it with a multi-meter when I get mine back cause I also remember it not giving me ANY reading at her's... but it appears to be working? I'm HOPEFULLY chocking this up to me being out of it that day and it was a case of "the indian, not the arrow." That said, the box it's in does have an original note from owner #1 that reads "bad pickup, evil pickup" so I intend on keeping it in the ICU for a couple of days of frequent monitoring hahaha.
For the '"62" she's interested in taking a bit of risk on it. From inspection it looks like the only issue it a couple split windings on the top layer... so we're HOPING that's it and that there's no internal shorting on the magnets or other issues. So she's interested in trying to wind off a couple layers and seeing if that does the trick. Fingers crossed, cause if not, that does leave me with a STILL broken, but now futzed with, pickup...
Chris

[verhoevenc]

Oh, PS: I can't see any serial on the bottom of the "62". Though I have them now, so if there's any pics of certain parts people would like to see, now'd be the time.
Chris

[copperheadroads]

Oh, PS: I can't see any serial on the bottom of the "62". Though I have them now, so if there's any pics of certain parts people would like to see, now'd be the time.
Chris

That would be great

[verhoevenc]

Got any certain parts in mind? :P I'm no master on old pickups so I don't know what will be the most telling detail shots to you guys.
Chris

[Jim Shine]

They did not start dating pickups until 1964. Before that you kind of have to get an eye for how things evolved and then you can ballpark a manufacture time.

I am soooo glad someone mentioned dipping it alcohol above. I have been spreading that for years and SD has taken it personally as he has taught they are potted in lacquer. Alcohol would have zero affect on lacquer.

So in the future, anyone getting a gray bobbin with the dark "Polysol" windings. You will notice when unwrapping that the winds want to break on the clumps of dry potting material. Dunk the pickup in Denatured alcohol and it will soften right up. If you catch it just right, it will turn to a rubbery substance the coil wire will slice right through.

[copperheadroads]

notice when unwrapping that the winds want to break on the clumps of dry potting material. Dunk the pickup in Denatured alcohol and it will soften right up. If you catch it just right, it will turn to a rubbery substance the coil wire will slice right through.

If you can't find Denatured alcohol , Methyl hydrate will do the same thing

[Yves]

with the dark "Polysol" windings.

So those 70s era dark wire was Polysol, right ?
Also was this wire bondable wire (done with alcohol then) or was it dipped in laquer once wound?

I've done some rewind of P bass and J Bass with this kind f wire and to me it would make sense now that it was bondable because both inner and outer winds were stuck together in a way that did not show excess of laquer like it seems to me laquer would have done (and dipping would be the only way to go through to the inner winds through flatwork holes as opposed tu brush, at least like I think about it).

Has anyone here ever tried bondable wire ? If so was it any good ?

[Sweetfinger]

Alcohol would have zero affect on lacquer.

Dunno what alcohol or lacquer you're talking about but my denatured alcohol eats lacquer just fine. Anyone that's spilled an alcoholic drink on a Gibson finds out as well. It isn't a perfect solvent for lacquer, but will definitely mar and soften it.

[David Schwab]

So those 70s era dark wire was Polysol, right ?

I believe thats's PE.

Also was this wire bondable wire (done with alcohol then) or was it dipped in laquer once wound?
I've done some rewind of P bass and J Bass with this kind f wire and to me it would make sense now that it was bondable because both inner and outer winds were stuck together in a way that did not show excess of laquer like it seems to me laquer would have done (and dipping would be the only way to go through to the inner winds through flatwork holes as opposed tu brush, at least like I think about it).

Has anyone here ever tried bondable wire ? If so was it any good ?

The bass pickups were potted in lacquer. I haven't used any bondable wire.

[copperheadroads]

I think dark poly is more common than you probably realize

[David Schwab]

I think dark poly is more common than you probably realize

Fender used Formvar until March 1964, then switched to plain enamel. They went to poly in the late 60s/70s.

They did use a bondable poly for the Jazzmaster and maybe the bass pickups in the 60s.

[copperheadroads]

I think dark poly is more common than you probably realize

I meant it is used now .By some of the bigger companies in there pickups

[David Schwab]

I meant it is used now .By some of the bigger companies in there pickups

Oh yeah... <cough>Gibson<cough>

Get black poly and it looks like PE.

[Yves]

I believe thats's PE.

Actually that's what I assumed when rewinding these, in any case the OD of the wire better matched the PE I have than the SPN.

The bass pickups were potted in lacquer. I haven't used any bondable wire.

Thanks for the info about these being potted in lacquer.

[David Schwab]

Thanks for the info about these being potted in lacquer.

Since writing this, I have read that some of the Fender bass pickups used bondable magnet wire activated with alcohol. I think the Jazzmaster pickups used the same wire. So it might be that instead.