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Reply With QuoteAlso, anyone know good caps to get? Maybe a website where I can buy them as a set?
So today my aunt sold me a 65 Super Reverb. The amp its self looks great (looks to me all original inside) and it even has the reverb tank with bag. However, the cabinet was cut down (or maybe its a different cab?) into a head. I don't really care about that because I plan on putting it to its original cabinet design anyhow. The amp worked when I turned it on but the light would not come on. The pots were very crackly and would come in and out of volume. I took it home and sprayed it down with the air compressor and got all of the dust out. I turned it on and the light came on, however when I turned off the "Standby" switch, the light went out. There is something weird going on with the amp. I eventually got it working GREAT! the reverb works perfect. The pots I never got to be how they should but they were a little better. So I was playing for about 2 minutes and it sounded awesome, and then it just faded out and the tubes were not longer lit up. I planned on getting a cap job/3prong cable and all that jazz but am worried about what else might be wrong. I don't mind simple fix's but could this be a transformer? I am not exactly sure what a transformer fail does but I know they are expensive! If anyone has an idea about this let me know. Also, if anyone has any cool information about the amp, feel free to share!
Happiness. Only real when shared.
Also, anyone know good caps to get? Maybe a website where I can buy them as a set?
Happiness. Only real when shared.
If you're getting a cap job anyway tell the tech to test the transformers first before overhauling it. Wouldn't that be terrible?
Standard protocol for tech if it doesn't turn on anymore is to check that and if they are in your amp anyways they shouldn't charge for that.
I have an amp that when I tap the jewel light the bulb turns on and off. Loose bayonet tabs. Maybe. Or pull it out and check the filament if its burnt out.
If you want low cost caps JustRadios.com
I've ordered from there and the caps sound fine to me.
Newark.com also.
Yeah, I tried different bulbs and everything, no go! I wouldent get the cap job unless I knew what else was wrong first. I dont want to waste $100+!! I might eventually put the amp into a 2x12 cab, I would like the 4x10 so it would be original but then I would have to drop $500 on speakers! choices choices... Hopefully its nothing too serious. I am getting the amp for Under $200 so I am not in it too deep
Happiness. Only real when shared.
Well I dont want to spend a ton, but considering this is a very collectible amp I don't want to skimp too much.
Happiness. Only real when shared.
ANything is possible, but a bad transformer is really unlikely. Look for a bad connection between the main transformer 6v leads, and the rest of the circuit. Since the light has benn going out, start there, the transformer is often soldered first to the bulb socket and from there wires trail over to the tubes.
SUitable amp caps are usually sold by the same folks that sells us tubes.
Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.
First: unplug the power cord from the wall. Then check the power cord that its connected properly to the amp and not torn or come apart anywhere.
Then: If you not comfortable opening the amp and checking the transformer you could turn the amp on and touch the large transformer and feel if it has a slight vibration/hum to it. If it doesn't it might be dead. If it does vibrate/hum, then you could most likely get a recap and be good to go.
Oh, and check the fuse.
If the fuse blew then it might have saved your transformer.
But I wouldn't replace the fuse or turn it on again.
The amp is 40+ years old and who knows how much it got banged around when the cab was converted or how long it sat unused. If the jewel and the tubes are not lighting up you are missing the 6.3v filament supply. You need to measure that at the transformer leads. If it it is there you have a bad connection(s) somewhere. If it isn't there you need to check the primary of the transformer and see if the line voltage is getting there. Your pots will probably clean up with some Deoxit. Don't assume the caps are bad. The filters probaly are but not necessarily. I have an all original 63 Tremolux that works perfectly. Do be aware that a Super Reverb requires a 4 ohm load. Since your amp works intermittently without major hum, I would suspect that there is very little wrong with it. Yes a 3 wire cord is a good idea. If you are clueless about electronics you should take it to a shop. There are potentially lethal voltages inside the amp.
A Super Reverb requires a 2-ohm load, not 4-ohm as another poster mentioned.
Don't believe everything you think. Beware of Rottweiler. Search engines are free.
You are absolutely correct! Brain fart on my part. It is one of the few amps that has only a 2 ohm tap. But it will tolerate a 4 ohm load if he hooks it up to 4/16 ohm switchable cabinet for test. There are a lot more of those round than a 2 ohm setup. My point was to not use an 8 or 16 ohm cab.Originally Posted by riz
Hey guys, I got some pictures for you tonight...I got it to work tonight for a while just by shaking it a LITTLE, when It started working it sounded AMAZING, but I noticed one of the tubes was super bright. I am taking it to a tech on Tuesday(charging $30 just to look at it) so hopefully its nothing crazy. If its a transformer would sound even come out? Im super excited about this amp. I think after I get all of the electronics working great I am going to get a 4x10 combo cab from mojotone and slowly get some speakers (the downside of 4x10... Having to buy FOUR speakers!!) But I was looking at the Weber signature series maybe? I have one in my champion 600 and really like it, but anything was an upgrade for that amp... Anyhow, enjoy the pictures and feel free to give input!!!!
The tube on the left is the one that was glowing brightly. Oh and I forgot to add something about this amp that might make you guys a little upset with me... Not too bad for $50 huh?
Happiness. Only real when shared.
What!?!?I got it to work tonight for a while just by shaking it
What.Not too bad for $50 huh?
You might only need a new rectifier tube... ignoring the fact the caps are all orignal. If the transformer is blown it wound't turn on. However, I once had a bad capacitor can that zapped my rectifier tube. The cap can got real hot too.The tube on the left is the one that was glowing brightly
Quit turning it on, really.
Super nice amp
Yeah, I'm done turning it on untill I take it in on tuesday.. I just resist... :x Also, when I take it in, would it be a bad idea for me to hold off on a cap job for a while n just get the problems fixed, and a three prong cable? I would like to keep the original caps as long as possible for sound reasons.
Happiness. Only real when shared.
The "cap job" you need to get isn't going to affect your "sound reasons" in any way but a positive one. Leave your signal caps alone, unless they're bad, and replace all electrolytics filter and bypass caps. When I get amps like this (I own 3 Supers!), I change all the filters first, and then start looking for problems. Often that WAS most of the problem... I thought you went through all this with your Bassman?! Can't remember the whole story, I just remember you posting about it...
Don't believe everything you think. Beware of Rottweiler. Search engines are free.
No, my bassman never had any issues with it, it just needed a cap job and I got one soon after I got it. I just read online that the original caps sound better and to keep them in as long as possible, but then again most things online are a bunch of crap, that's why I consult this forum
Last edited by Hella1hella; 07-16-2011 at 04:31 PM.
Happiness. Only real when shared.
The original SIGNAL caps (inter-stage coupling, etc.), yeah, maybe. The blue molded ones do have a good reputation, and there's no need to change them if they're not leaky or out of spec. When you hear/read "cap job", it doesn't mean EVERY single cap in the amp. It means primarily the big, cheap, electrolytics under the "dog house". Some folks say the original electrolytic bypass caps in the preamp stages should stay. They don't see a lot of voltage and a case can be made that it's o.k. to leave them in well past their usual life span. You see, they drift in value over time, and that can affect the response of your particular amp, more trebly, more bassy, etc., and you may like it that way. Note that these are NOT the blue molded caps I mentioned earlier, these are the brown paper ones on the the tagboard. You can try to test them and match their value, but I like to hear these amps as they were built, and just replace them, when I change the other electrolytics. Don't forget to change the BIAS SUPPLY CAP--very important to do this one, it sometimes gets overlooked.
Don't believe everything you think. Beware of Rottweiler. Search engines are free.
This wasn't asked, but I'd personally get a 4x10" speaker cab and leave it in piggyback form.
It's a heater string problem, very common to old Fender amps, the heater string also runs the pilot light in this amp. Those light sockets are notorious trouble makers. The other issue - crackling could be DC voltage on the board, caused by either "leaky" coupling caps or moisture that has become impregnated in the board. The luckiest thing would be that it was just dirty pots, (maybe). These amps are often stored in moist basements and garages, which is fine in the southwest but not in most other places. Any qualified amp tech should have the heater string issue cleared up in no time. Please use Sprague Atoms to re-cap, don't "cheap out", it's a 65 Super Reverb after all. Best wishes.
Nice find. Don't let anyone talk you into changing out the transformers. It seems to be the black box that no one understands, so too many people want to change them before doing real troubleshooting. Change the electrolytics and keep the blue molded Mallory caps. Keep the originals in a little baggie if it makes you feel better. Since you are paying someone else to do the work, you will be a lot better off, just changing all of the electrolytics (don't forget the bias capacitor) at once and being done.
It looks to me that someone has twisted the heater wires tighter than factory. A good thing actually, but also a potential place for a bad solder connection.
It will be fairly heavy once you go back to the original configuration with the cabinet, but well worth it.
A while back, there were some guys parting out old Fender amps and selling the chassis, cabinets and speakers separately on eBay. A real shame to do that IMO, but if you can get a real 1965 cabinet and some period correct speakers the amp will be worth considerably more.
if you can't find an original cab, I'd like suggest JD Newell in Georgia. He's a great guy, has built many cabinets for the amps I build, doesn't jack up the shipping charges either. He will take good care of you. In fact if your planning to bring this amp out to gigs, you might be better off with an aftermarket cabinet. Then you can get an original cabinet whenever you may find it and not put any more wear and tear into. Preserving it's collector value should you ever decide to sell. I believe John's website is
www.newellamps.com
best wishes....
Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback! Anyone have some good speaker ideas? I would like originals but they are seeming to be hard to find, and when I CAN find them they are super overpriced, or need to be re-coned. I have looked at some Weber stuff, and some of the reissue Jensen but its hard to really pick anything without opinions on it. I am trying to keep the speakers as price conscious as possible because with their being four speakers, it could get REAL expensive REAL quick.
Fee- Is this issue usually expensive to fix? Its currently at the amp guy right now but I know hes been super busy lately so I am just waiting to hear back. Also, with the atom caps... I have heard these are great cabs but also have heard from some good sources that they are super hyped and you can get caps that are great quality for a little less price. I'm not saying I want to skimp on parts but are they really necessary?
--- Just checked out the Newell cabs. They look great! They are pretty much the same as everything I have found ( like the mojotone stuff) Pine with Plywood baffle. But they look to be awesome quality and they are a good price! I also think its great how he offers them with speakers. The prices he has for speakers is much less than it would be for me to buy them.
Anyone have an old Super reverb cab they would sell me for a good deal ?!
Happiness. Only real when shared.
As much as I like JD Newells cabinets, I think he's only selling the new Italian Jensen speakers, am I right? I got a some and thought they were lifeless compared to some others. But I got twelves so who knows.......... I have found the Weber 10F 150T to be the closest thing to the vintage ceramic Chicago Jensen. But louder or more efficient. At $90 those could be considered expensive when buying four of them. Try to see if you can get any info on the new Jupiter 10 inch speakers, they are attempting to make a "vintage Chicago Jensen" type speaker. They have both AlNiCo and ceramic versions and the price (to me, not retail) is quite good. I just haven't had the chance to order them yet. The Eminence legends are very authentic sounding tens, both the AlNiCo and the ceramic versions and are low priced. They tend not to be as loud as the Webers, but you've got a Super so you'll be too loud all the time anyway. As far as the Sprague Atoms caps are concerned, yes I think that's the only way to go, a few bucks more but if you spread that out over the ten years they're likely to be in there it's really negligible. Some people like F&T caps, I'm sticking with the Spragues. Keep clear of the Illinois caps sold at music stores, and make sure your tech doesn't use them in your amp, yes they will save everyone money, no they don't make music. Best wishes......
It really depends on if you want to repair or restore the amp. Personally I would buy a used 4x10 or a 2x12 extension cabinet at 4 ohms or something that could be rewired to 2 ohms. Then I would just use it and take my time to find a period cab or a reproduction and appropriate speakers on eBay, etc. No hurry, the amp will sound fine. You might find old bandmaster, showman, etc for cheap if you look.
Screw Sprague. There's plenty of other caps out there that perform as well or better and don't cost as much. I have a feeling they aren't gonna last much longer before production is halted. Another case of "they don't make 'em like they used to"...
The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....
In my opinion the Sprague Atoms are the closest thing in sound and performance to the Mallory Caps that were original in his 65 Super. I'm giving my suggestions based on the concept that he'd like the sound and performance of a vintage blackface amp. Lot's of caps could out perform them, you could re-cap with Solen Fast Caps and realize a tremendous jump in performance (from an engineer's point of view) but it makes for a jumpy overly aggressive guitar amp that nearly no one would prefer to a period correct Super Reverb. I don't know how much he would be paying for parts so I can't say for sure but for me the difference in cost between recapping the power supply with F&T versus Sprague Atoms is only around $10. If that $10 is that critical so be it. Best wishes......
I believe there's some reports here on problems with the recent Spraques.
I'll stick with the advice I've given, thanks very much.
Power supply caps don't have tone...
Power supply caps can affect tone, or response, or 'feel,' but only with a change in the value of the cap. Increasing the 8uF or 16uF PS caps in a Tweed for example, to 40uF, is really going to stiffen up the power supply, reduce sag, and affect the feel of the amp.
It's pretty doubtful the OP is going to change the values of any of the caps, since it's fairly obvious he'd like to keep the original circuit. Any good quality, correctly rated caps will suffice.
It always amuses me how people will use carbon comp resistors in the PS section for that 'boutique' tone. I'd prefer safe, reliable, stable, etc any day. The power supply doesn't generate any tone by itself. Voltages affect tone, but as long as the components are of the correct (original) values, then the PS will be just fine.
I recently did a build and had a brand new Sprague cap explode, running 150+V below the specified rating. I exclusively used them for their good reputation. I spent hours looking for mistakes, over and over again, and found none. I replaced the cap with an old used one I had lying around, and it worked perfectly. I subsequently replaced it with a new one, for obvious reasons. There was no reason whatsoever for that cap to fail, and the lightning bolt that resulted scared the hell out of me. A large cap with 100's of volts across it shorting out is not a good thing- and when they do let go, you better hope that's all that lets go in the amp. A short might take out a tube recto and save the tranny or not, with diodes, you could definitely lose the transformer.
So Fee, whatever you've been told about the PS caps sounding better or being close to the originals- it just doesn't really matter. The only original caps are the original caps. Any replacements are still replacements. I was not aware of a problem with the Sprague caps, I thought I was the only one. Evidently not. Replacing PS caps is OK. Any sane person planning to use the amp will be happy that it's done if it were ever going to be for sale. Much like the amp should have a 3 wire grounded cord. It's just a must. All old guitars, cars, amps, etc were designed and built to be used, not as decorations.
Congrats to the OP for getting this great amp so inexpensively. I thought my $125.00 68 Bassman head was a bargain... 15 years ago.... You'll love it once you get it sorted.
Thank you for the information! Just so everyone knows.. My theory for this amp "restoration" is this... WWLFD - - - "What would Leo Fender do?" I want this amp to sound like fender would have wanted it to.
Happiness. Only real when shared.
So I think I might have came to a decision... Since I do not have enough money to completely restore this amp right away this is my plan. After I get all of the electronics in tip top shape, I will keep it as a head for a little while until I get the costs of getting it fixed payed off. After this, I am thinking I will get one of the JD newell cabs. They look like great craftsmanship at a great price as well, and order it loaded with (2) ceramic reissue Jensens and (2) alnico reissue Jensens. I know the reissue are not the BEST speakers, but they are reproduction of the originals, and if they were terrible fender probably wouldn't put them in all of their new amps. So at this point I will have a fully functional amp that will look like an original to the eye and will be gig ready. BUT IT DOES NOT STOP THERE! The reason for me doing all of that is because I have realized I will not be able to find all of the vintage parts right away, so I am going part by part. Since I will have the completed amp, when I see an original 65' Jensen, I will buy it and place it in the amp, and keep doing this as I find all of the parts ( Cabinet, Speakers, EVERYTHING, even down to the Reverb RCA wires). In the end, I will have an amp that is COMPLETELY 1965 Fender parts.
Happiness. Only real when shared.
sounds like a plan.........
Agree.This wasn't asked, but I'd personally get a 4x10" speaker cab and leave it in piggyback form.
A vintage type SR combo looks cool but
a/ are super heavy / awkward to handle
b/ vibration is tough on tubes; speakers and tubes in very close proximity is a recipe for issues around microphonics and tube rattle.
I'm very much regretting going with a combo format for my Fender type build, after a second RCA 12AX7 has developed microphonics.
Pete.
Pete,
good point I agree, head boxes have a lot in their favour. Combo amps were meant to be convenient but Supers, Twins, Bluesbreakers eg. and such are just plain heavy. Although JD Newell makes a two ten cab for Super Reverbs which cuts down on the weight and awkwardness. For tubes problems often times you'll find that the silicone O-rings placed on the tubes at the mica support will stop microphonics if the tube hasn't loosened up too much, thus saving a favourite nos tube that still had some life in it. They really work ! And you will find that many times the tube shield can be skipped (especially at the beginning of the preamp) you have to try. But it is for sure that the O-rings work very well on power tubes even tightening up bass response. In an EL84 combo amp I might just put them on from the very beginning and will probably extend the tube life quite a bit.
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