completely clueless.

[SonnyW]

Yea, we do. We even compost.
But saving wire in a cardboard box is not recycling; it's just using your house as a landfill. IMO.
And in the Boss's opinion, for sure. :^)

So what is the alternative to putting it in a box? .. Wait let me answer that .. Putting it in the trash. Which just goes into a real landfill. Which we need a lot less of stuff going into in this world IMO. And putting any usable amount of copper into the landfill is just wrong IMO. It is taking a tiny bit of a finite resource and putting it exactly in the number one place where it will probably never be used again ever, and making some of the least desirable real estate on earth bigger. The box takes up unused space under my bench, right next to the trash can. It is no more trouble to put it into the box than to put it into the trash right next to it, and eventually it will get recycled. The wire is so fine it is worth next to nothing as far as what the recycler will pay, but to me it is just the idea of it. Just my thinking on it.

[madialex]

LOL I have 3 boxes of wire like that. I have collected it over 11 years. I don't mean secrets as in how one may wind, I mean the little things that must be learned on how to change this or that. Like I said I have 3 boxes full of cut off wire from learning those little things and I wont be giving out any hard learned knowledge. Not trying to be secretive just real. All of us had to go this route and learn the hard way. Not at all trying to be mean. I have been here a very long time and there is a ton of information here. If you learn the hard way then you will discover all the little things that make a pickup work. You will then be able to read a post where all the info you are looking for is in there if you know how to read it and see it. I truly am trying to help not hurt. I have had bad information given to me and it sucked. There are those out there who will give wrong info trying to throw you off, none here but there has been and they are all gone now. So in a word, read everything and try it, you'll be better off in the end.

Oh and yes recycle the wire.

[copperheadroads]

LOL I have 3 boxes of wire like that. I have collected it over 11 years. I don't mean secrets as in how one may wind, I mean the little things that must be learned on how to change this or that. Like I said I have 3 boxes full of cut off wire from learning those little things and I wont be giving out any hard learned knowledge. Not trying to be secretive just real. All of us had to go this route and learn the hard way. Not at all trying to be mean. I have been here a very long time and there is a ton of information here. If you learn the hard way then you will discover all the little things that make a pickup work. You will then be able to read a post where all the info you are looking for is in there if you know how to read it and see it. I truly am trying to help not hurt. I have had bad information given to me and it sucked. There are those out there who will give wrong info trying to throw you off, none here but there has been and they are all gone now. So in a word, read everything and try it, you'll be better off in the end.

Oh and yes recycle the wire.

I'm gonna o green & start reusing all the old wire in my new "Splicebucker"
Being so labor intensive ,it will retail for about 2k a pup

[jmaf]

LOL I have 3 boxes of wire like that. I have collected it over 11 years. I don't mean secrets as in how one may wind, I mean the little things that must be learned on how to change this or that. Like I said I have 3 boxes full of cut off wire from learning those little things and I wont be giving out any hard learned knowledge. Not trying to be secretive just real. All of us had to go this route and learn the hard way. Not at all trying to be mean. I have been here a very long time and there is a ton of information here. If you learn the hard way then you will discover all the little things that make a pickup work. You will then be able to read a post where all the info you are looking for is in there if you know how to read it and see it. I truly am trying to help not hurt. I have had bad information given to me and it sucked. There are those out there who will give wrong info trying to throw you off, none here but there has been and they are all gone now. So in a word, read everything and try it, you'll be better off in the end.

Oh and yes recycle the wire.

That is one way to see it, and I respect the fact that you do it that way. What you describe is precisely how "native indian" educate their young ones. Indians don't tell their children all they know, they give them basics and let them go out and learn. When they grab a stick on fire and burn themselves, the older indians don't stop them before they get burned, they just explain it later why they were burned.

In terms of scientific development, indians didn't get very far using that educational system.

Another comparison would be to software development. Up until 1990 open source software was "communist" and in fact most open source idealists were sort of anarchist at heart. Then Linux arrived and companies like IBM and Red Hat made billions from it and used it to pressure other giants like Microsoft - then all of a sudden folks realized that not holding secrets was actually very profitable. Open source showed that people are more honest than dishonest, that people will give you credit for what you do.

If you keep your secrets to yourself, they die with you. If you spread them to honest people, then 20 years after you die someone somewhere will say "madialex taught me this 20 years ago and I'm still winding pickups this way". Or you can patent your secrets, that will also provide you credit for what you did but will make your secrets public, which drives progress and generates new ideas based on yours.

It's my way of seeing things in the year 2012. Again, I may be wrong.

[Steve Conner]

The year 2012 isn't vintage correct, though. Real PAFs have to be made in an ugly Cold War-era climate of secrecy and black propaganda.

[rjb]

I'm gonna o green & start reusing all the old wire in my new "Splicebucker"
Being so labor intensive ,it will retail for about 2k a pup

And worth every penny! $2000/10,000+ splices comes out to less than 20 cents a splice.
Do you have a waiting list?

[jmaf]

The year 2012 isn't vintage correct, though. Real PAFs have to be made in an ugly Cold War-era climate of secrecy and black propaganda.

I got curious one day and searched Youtube for Soviet music videos. I was surprised to find out that they had the hairspray, glam rock and sharp pointed floyd rose "super-strats". I bet they were OTK PAF's on those guitars
The Cold War was bizarre.

[tonequester]

tonequester here.jackass


You may be wrong jmaf, but I think that you've got a pretty good grip on the whole thing. tonequester.

Quote : "A jackass can tear a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build one". LBJ.

[jmaf]

tonequester here.jackass


You may be wrong jmaf, but I think that you've got a pretty good grip on the whole thing. tonequester.

Quote : "A jackass can tear a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build one". LBJ.

I'm pretty sure there's an extra jackass in there somewhere.

[SonnyW]

I'm pretty sure there's an extra jackass in there somewhere.

Looks like a typo to me. But he had a good quote. After all it is from someone who was probably one of the worlds great authorities on jackasses, and who would have been the first to tell you so.

[tonequester]

Looks like a typo to me. But he had a good quote. After all it is from someone who was probably one of the worlds great authorities on jackasses, and who would have been the first to tell you so.

tonequester here.

Hey SonnyW, jmaf ! No typo, and if we listened to his tapes from the Oval Office, I'll bet jackass was pretty mild in comparison to many of his comments.
However, in his defense, he also said : "Freedom is not enough". Those who sleep under over-passes at night would probably agree. Freedoms a great thing though.
Having the freedom to "build your own" anything, beats the Hell out of paying the price of not being free. Gentlemen.........may you always be free ! tonequester.

[madialex]

That is one way to see it, and I respect the fact that you do it that way. What you describe is precisely how "native indian" educate their young ones. Indians don't tell their children all they know, they give them basics and let them go out and learn. When they grab a stick on fire and burn themselves, the older indians don't stop them before they get burned, they just explain it later why they were burned.

In terms of scientific development, indians didn't get very far using that educational system.

Another comparison would be to software development. Up until 1990 open source software was "communist" and in fact most open source idealists were sort of anarchist at heart. Then Linux arrived and companies like IBM and Red Hat made billions from it and used it to pressure other giants like Microsoft - then all of a sudden folks realized that not holding secrets was actually very profitable. Open source showed that people are more honest than dishonest, that people will give you credit for what you do.

If you keep your secrets to yourself, they die with you. If you spread them to honest people, then 20 years after you die someone somewhere will say "madialex taught me this 20 years ago and I'm still winding pickups this way". Or you can patent your secrets, that will also provide you credit for what you did but will make your secrets public, which drives progress and generates new ideas based on yours.

It's my way of seeing things in the year 2012. Again, I may be wrong.

No secrets here, I am really just talking about what you said about the indians. Things like what different tension does, what different tpl does etc... Thats the stuff i feel that people should learn the hard way, gives them a real appreciation for the craft and the hard work it takes. As far as secrets I have none, just the way I wind, anyone can do it but not like me unless we hooked up our brains. LOL no secrets though.

[jmaf]

No secrets here, I am really just talking about what you said about the indians. Things like what different tension does, what different tpl does etc... Thats the stuff i feel that people should learn the hard way, gives them a real appreciation for the craft and the hard work it takes.

Oh then I completely misunderstood you - I wholeheartedly agree with this quote above. There are certain things that we should let practice teach others, no question about that. There is no way one can teach the little details of the feel for the craft, that can only be gained at the bench.

[big_teee]

Oh then I completely misunderstood you - I wholeheartedly agree with this quote above. There are certain things that we should let practice teach others, no question about that. There is no way one can teach the little details of the feel for the craft, that can only be gained at the bench.

I agree whole heartedly, lots of things have to be figured out the hard way.
With that said, you still need a basic platform to start with and build on.
That had gotten harder and harder to find around here.
This Forum Category is here to provide that platform in the Pickup world.
The Amp Forum has had that covered very well for some time.
With the Amp building categories.
In amps you can't elude and hide much, or some poor beginning amp builder will get fried.
Good Info is important in whatever your trying to build.
You might slow someone down for a while, by not giving info.
Anything someone wants to learn bad enough will get learned and figured out.
Also if you share most things, you will also learn in the process, I always do!
Good Luck,
Terry

[jmaf]

So true, Terry. Pickup winding is still a bit of a mistery for most of us and getting the basic information to get up to speed and actually wind a first pickup is pretty hard. This forum surely has its place, I might even learn to wind a pickup

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


Greetings madialex ! Glad to make your "aquaintance", and thanks for the reply. I just wanted to add that....I only hope to have a craft secret worth keeping someday.
If I can hang in there with "you guys" long enough, maybe I'll get there. Have a great day ! tonequester.

[jonson]

The old girl passed on in 2009 but I think she must have rewound a lot of pickups before she shuffled off her mortal coil.

[madialex]

I'll say this much. I wound for years without a counter, winding to DCR only. I finally got a counter and a whole new world opened up to me. Why did it take so long?? lol David S stayed on my about a counter for years and I finally listened. The one thing IMHO that helps the most is a true wind count. That and an understanding of what differing tensions do, different coil shapes, TPL and In a case of a humbucker how the 2 coils interact. If you read through the threads here, even back to the old forum and threads when we dinosaurs started walking the earth, LOL Stab at Possum and all the other guys who were around back then, myself included You will learn a lot. I learned a lot! Take for example Possum posted one time he applies what he learned about single coils to humbuckers. Simple statement right? Read between the lines, it will go a long way in tone.

[tonequester]

The old girl passed on in 2009 but I think she must have rewound a lot of pickups before she shuffled off her mortal coil.

tonequester here.


Greetings jonson ! Best "one liner" I've heard in a long while. From the amount of conductor she's wearing in the photos, Seymour Duncan must have read her obituary with some satisfaction. I wonder if those pick-ups had a "British" tone, she seems to have that stiff upper lip thing going as well. Hey, it's great to make your "aquaintance" on the forum. With a sense of humor like you have, feel free to "holler"anytime ! Have a great day ! tonequester.



Quote : " I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands !" Babe Ruth.

[tonequester]

tonequester here.

I'll continue to check in on this area of expertice. you guy's not only are accomplished pick-up makers ,but philosophers as well ! I'm gettin' itchy to make one myself. That's always been one of my problem areas though. One project begets two, two begets three, ad infinitum..... Let's say that it's definitely on my "got to do " list. I'm sure that i won't lack for opinions here ! If I'm after secrets, I'll go to the amp section ! big_teee, jmaf,SonnyW, I thought the Three Stooges went in a lot of circles. How many do you guys think that you've made
in all of that winding ? tonequester, bidding happoy winding to all !

[big_teee]

My buddy jmaf, is not a pickup winder, he just stops by here now and then, to keep us all straight.
We all share quite a bit, We all have a lot of stuff listed around here.
None of it really secret. I am retired and this is a hobby to me so, I'm not trying to make a living winding like some here are.
Sonny, Copper, madialex, & David Schwab have wound tons of pickups.
I've lost track in the last 3 or 4 years how many I've wound, but only a fraction of those guys.
T

[SonnyW]

I wouldn't have put myself in that list. Those other guys have done a lot more pickups than I have, and there are plenty of others here too that have really done tons of them. I have been at this for a while as a sideline, and I have hung out on the forum for years. But I haven't made tons of them. Hundreds maybe. I am retired too now but supposedly I am supplementing my income with pickup making. I have only taken this commercial for about a year. Pickup sales are pretty slow so far. I do more setups and repairs than anything else. I like the pickup making better though, and I am glad to share most of what I know.

[big_teee]

I wouldn't have put myself in that list. Those other guys have done a lot more pickups than I have, and there are plenty of others here too that have really done tons of them. I have been at this for a while as a sideline, and I have hung out on the forum for years. But I haven't made tons of them. Hundreds maybe. I am retired too now but supposedly I am supplementing my income with pickup making. I have only taken this commercial for about a year. Pickup sales are pretty slow so far. I do more setups and repairs than anything else. I like the pickup making better though, and I am glad to share most of what I know.

I was just counting those of us that hangout some up here.
If you go to the other forum, real winders, and makers are too numerous to count!
I get to thinking I might be getting in the black, then I spend 3 or 4 hundred at mojo, and there it goes.
T

[jmaf]

My buddy jmaf, is not a pickup winder, he just stops by here now and then, to keep us all straight.

I learn lots here with every visit. Since I know next to nothing about the art and craft of winding pickups, what usually brings me here is that this forum is packed with really kind folks, as tonequester has noted.

I'm just the guy at the other end of the balcony, randomly interfering every now and then

[Ward]

I'm just the guy at the other end of the balcony, randomly interfering every now and then

Right then, mine's a Bourbon n coke thanks

[tonequester]

tonequester here.

Hey Ward ! Make that two. I like to hang around as well. jmaf,SonnyW,big-teee, and pretty much everybody I've come across here takes a little edge off the days
"tribulations". Plus being the "low man", I almost always learn something worthwhile. Hell, now I know your a bourbon&Coke man. I'll have to get it in my journal though, or I'll have forgotten it by tomorrow. Have a "good 'un"! tonequester.

[big_teee]

tonequester here.

Hey Ward ! Make that two. I like to hang around as well. jmaf,SonnyW,big-teee, and pretty much everybody I've come across here takes a little edge off the days
"tribulations". Plus being the "low man", I almost always learn something worthwhile. Hell, now I know your a bourbon&Coke man. I'll have to get it in my journal though, or I'll have forgotten it by tomorrow. Have a "good 'un"! tonequester.

Put me down for Folgers, and Lipton!
T