big-teee. How 'bout an opinion?

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


Greetings big-teee. I'd like your opinion on the relevance/non-revelence of the measurement of d.c. resistance on a hand wound pick-ups output and tonal
characteristics. Also, on a pick-up with staggered height pole-pieces, is the staggering a standardized measurement. I guess the thought came to me that if it is, perhaps
the staggering of string height in setting up a guitar should be similar. If you can find time for what may truly be DUH !, questions, I'm all "ears". tonequester.

[big_teee]

tonequester here.


Greetings big-teee. I'd like your opinion on the relevance/non-revelence of the measurement of d.c. resistance on a hand wound pick-ups output and tonal
characteristics. Also, on a pick-up with staggered height pole-pieces, is the staggering a standardized measurement. I guess the thought came to me that if it is, perhaps
the staggering of string height in setting up a guitar should be similar. If you can find time for what may truly be DUH !, questions, I'm all "ears". tonequester.

Lots of the basic questions can be answered by searching, and reading all the posted, and referenced material.
Pickup winding wire has resistance per foot. each sized wire has more or less resistance per foot.
After a pickup is wound resistance is about the only thing left to tell how much wire is on a pickup.
When you make a pickup, you usually wind the pickups with a predetermined amount of turns.
A typical humbucker bobbin is wound with 4500-5500 turns of 42 gauge wire. The more turns the more ohms DCR.
A typical Strat coil will be 7000+ turns of wire.
The stagger was a Fender thing, because of non adjustable poles.
the poles were staggered to make the volume come out right.
This was more critical when 7 inch radius necks were used.
With a flatter finger board Non staggered pickups work just fine.
The Stagger is more of a vintage thing.
Good Luck, with your searching and reading!
T

[David Schwab]

I'd like your opinion on the relevance/non-revelence of the measurement of d.c. resistance on a hand wound pick-ups output and tonal characteristics.

I'm not Terry, but I play him on TV.

Resistance doesn't mean anything unless you are comparing two similar pickups wound with the same gauge wire. The number of turns is more important, as the resistance can vary.

Also, with thinner gauge wire, like 43 or 44, the resistance will be higher. But the pickup won't necessarily be louder.

So for an example, if you wind 5,000 turns of 42, you might get 4k or so. Now wind 5,000 turns of 43 and might be 8k. But it won't be louder. It will sound different however. So wire gauge is a good way to get different tones. Thicker wire has a round tone, and thinner wire has more mids and sounds tighter.

But if you are going to wind a very hot pickup with existing bobbins, you have to go to thinner gauge wire.

Also, on a pick-up with staggered height pole-pieces, is the staggering a standardized measurement. I guess the thought came to me that if it is, perhaps the staggering of string height in setting up a guitar should be similar. If you can find time for what may truly be DUH !, questions, I'm all "ears". tonequester.

IMO staggering is stupid. It was done back when people used heavy gauge strings with wound Gs. The string output was not even, so they tried to fix that on the pickup, since it did not have adjustable poles.

But people use lighter strings with plain Gs these days, and the strings are made better. So you end up with an uneven response across the strings.

If anything, match the curvature of the fingerboard.

[Ward]

Nearly all my strats have 7 1/4'' board radius and my woody pickups are all flat with no stagger and they work great. Stagger schmagger.

[David Schwab]

Nearly all my strats have 7 1/4'' board radius and my woody pickups are all flat with no stagger and they work great. Stagger schmagger.

Exactly!

[big_teee]

Nearly all my strats have 7 1/4'' board radius and my woody pickups are all flat with no stagger and they work great. Stagger schmagger.

Same with the Blades, I like them straight over the curved in the mini blades.
The curved ones Jacked up the Mids IMO.
T

[Ward]

Still, there are the players out there that nothing short of vintage correct will do. I'm not bothered anymore, I just buy .688 mags n that's what you'll get if you want a pickup from me, er, could that be why I don't sell a lot

[big_teee]

Still, there are the players out there that nothing short of vintage correct will do. I'm not bothered anymore, I just buy .688 mags n that's what you'll get if you want a pickup from me, er, could that be why I don't sell a lot

I started to say that earlier.
Stagger may not be necessary, but beveled poles, and stagger sure Sell Pickups.
I do a real mild stagger on mine, mainly cause the vintage Buffs just love them, and I think they look Cool.
T

[tonequester]

tonequester here,


thanks big-teee, for the info. I'm trying to digest the starting out and beginners part of the forum as fast as I can. I printed off about 10 pages of good stuff today. I';ve got a problem with staring at the screen too much, so I print things off to read in a better light and atmosphere. When your manic, sometimes the questions come fast. The trouble is that they can disappear just as fast. The questions that you just answered for me seemed to be of the type that were perhaps opinionated. If I seek an opinion I'll go to the place where the opinions
have a chance of truth to them. I figure you are one of those trusted "places". Sorry if I'm a pest. It wouldn't be the first time. I'll get as much out of the existing material as possible.
Have a "good 'un" ! tonequester .

[Stratz]

Still, there are the players out there that nothing short of vintage correct will do.

If someone insists on vintage stagger I adjust the Gauss level for each pole piece accordingly. It works great.

[rjb]

Also, on a pick-up with staggered height pole-pieces, is the staggering a standardized measurement.

It just occurred to me that (assuming poles of equal magnetic strength) for a given set of strings, the "optimum" pole heights would track the positions of 6 adjustable saddles.

Say you set the intonation and pole height for the 1st string.

The 2nd string has a larger diameter than the 1st- so it is stiffer and has higher output than the 1st string.
So you set the 2nd saddle further from the nut and you set the 2nd pole lower than for the 1st string.

If you have a wound 3rd string (as when Strats were born), its core is about as thin as the 1st string (maybe thinner).
So you set the 3rd saddle at about the same position as the 1st string (maybe closer) and the 3rd pole at about the same height as the 1st pole (maybe higher).

The core of each wound string gets progressively larger, so the saddle positions get progressively farther from the nut, and the pole heights get progressively lower.

Of course, since the saddle heights are adjusted in an arc to match the neck radius (tilted a bit so the bass-side action is higher than the treble side)- you would "superimpose" the neck radius over the pole heights, and mount the pickup in a slightly tilted position.

After a week of adjusting your custom pickup, you'd try it out and conclude that setting all the poles to the same height would've been close enough.

[big_teee]

I have this on the resource post, but I will put it here too.
Show's several options.
I wouldn't get to carried away by it, but it is history.
Like I always say do them however you want!
T
Attachment 19187

[SonnyW]

Still, there are the players out there that nothing short of vintage correct will do. I'm not bothered anymore, I just buy .688 mags n that's what you'll get if you want a pickup from me, er, could that be why I don't sell a lot

On the other hand, I make them any way the customer wants, I have standard ones with vintage stagger, flat poles, and custom stagger, both diameters, beveled and not - ad infinitum, and I don't sell a lot either LOL

I did a lot of studying on this a few years ago and ended up with a compromise that I like. I use a stagger with the inner two poles taller than the rest kind of like a tele but taller. It matches the fingerboard radius pretty good, and it looks staggered enough for most customers. I ended up with .688 and .705. The .705 isn't common but I was ordering magnets anyway so I got them that length.

[big_teee]

On the other hand, I make them any way the customer wants, I have standard ones with vintage stagger, flat poles, and custom stagger, both diameters, beveled and not - ad infinitum, and I don't sell a lot either LOL

I did a lot of studying on this a few years ago and ended up with a compromise that I like. I use a stagger with the inner two poles taller than the rest kind of like a tele but taller. It matches the fingerboard radius pretty good, and it looks staggered enough for most customers. I ended up with .688 and .705. The .705 isn't common but I was ordering magnets anyway so I got them that length.

I do my own blend also!
Sonny, do you bevel also.
I bevel, cause it makes it easier to get them in the flatwork with a hammer.
No press here.
T

[SonnyW]

I do my own blend also!
Sonny, do you bevel also.
I bevel, cause it makes it easier to get them in the flatwork with a hammer.
No press here.
T

I put the bevel on the 50's vintage models (higher end) and leave it off the 60's models. But I will bevel or not on customer request. It is easier to get the top flat work on with the bevels and it is not much trouble to do. I just chuck the magnet up in a drill motor and put it up to the grinding wheel for a little bit. I buy the magnets not beveled and just keep a few of each size beveled up ahead.

[David Schwab]

I bevel, cause it makes it easier to get them in the flatwork...

That's why Fender beveled them also.

If you have a small drill press vice you can press them in with that. I have an arbor press, but it's at the woodworking shop, so that's how I've been doing it. A drill press would work also.

[copperheadroads]

That's why Fender beveled them also.

If you have a small drill press vice you can press them in with that. I have an arbor press, but it's at the woodworking shop, so that's how I've been doing it. A drill press would work also.

I bevel all the rod magnets in pickups ,just a slight bevel thats not really noticable ,but it still makes a stronger bobbin with less chance of flaring

[SonnyW]

That's why Fender beveled them also.

If you have a small drill press vice you can press them in with that. I have an arbor press, but it's at the woodworking shop, so that's how I've been doing it. A drill press would work also.

I have used a drill press before and it works pretty good. Well, so does the hammer most of the time. The arbor press I use is just a cheapie from Harbor freight and it is even easier. One trick that I have been using is to put a neo magnet on the ram of the press, which does two things. It lets me hold the uncharged rod magnet perpendicular so it goes into the bottom flatwork good, and I can usually press all six mags in the bottom of set of flatwork in under 30 seconds. When I put on the top I use a 5 mm socket to keep the magnet from pushing up a big ring around the hole in the top. The socket just sticks to the ram because of the neo. I also sometimes use a 5.5 mm socket if I need a bigger opening to start them with. Of course, I still use the spacers held on with rubber bands as in the StewMac instructions for the hammer method. The socket method looks to me like it would also work with a drill press vise or a hammer.