A humbucker with a little twist that I'm messing around with...

[ReWind]

It's a humbucker with a tap in the screw coil. Probably not a revolutionary idea, but it's new for me. What I did do, that might be somewhat unique, is to use a higher tension and lower TPL on the inside portion of the coil and less tension and a higher TPL on the outside portion of the coil. It did this with the theory that the lower resonant peak created by adding the extra wire might be compensated for / complimented by using a brighter coil on that portion of the wire.

Just a theory and just having some fun in the lab, really. I'm pretty sure I can get some cool sounds out of this pickup, regardless, as I used all 4 conductors and the shield to hook up the coils and tap. I have yet to test this pickup. Hoping to do that tonight or at least this weekend. Just thought I'd share my adventure here.

Here's the specs. Note that the DCR readings were taken immediately after assembly.
42AWG PE
5700 turns on the slug coil reading 4.8k Ohms
3700 turns on the inner portion of the screw coil reading 3.1k Ohms
7700 turns total on the screw coil reading 6.8k Ohms

Inside of screw coil wound and tap in place:


Outside portion of screw coil wound over the inner part and the tap:


Here's the finished 3 conductor screw coil. Not much room on there! I used my normal 42AWG PE. 7700 turns of it on this bobbin.


Pressing the slugs:


Mounted on a steel keeper and baseplate:


Wired up. The way I decided to connect the hookup lead on this one was to solder the South/screw coil start and the hookup lead shield to the baseplate, then use the remaining 4 conductors of the hookup lead to connect individually to the South/screw coil tap and finish, and the North/slug coil start and finish. This should yield some pretty interesting possibilities when installed. ...and confuse the hell out of anyone else trying to connect this pickup later!

[big_teee]

Thanks for sharing!

[David Schwab]

If you tap both coils you can switch from a humbucker to a more single coil tone, and still be hum canceling. That's how the Joe Barden Two/Tone pickup works.

[Steve A.]

If you tap both coils you can switch from a humbucker to a more single coil tone, and still be hum canceling. That's how the Joe Barden Two/Tone pickup works.

George L makes a tapped humbucker for steel guitars with a very interesting wiring harness. Each coil is 9k full and 7k tapped. (For a regular guitar you might want to have the full bobbin at 4K and the tap at 3.1K to keep the same ratio.) I just posted these pictures on another thread in the Guitar Effects forum (go figure!)

Attachment 19556

Attachment 19557

The 5th and 6th positions are very interesting. Surprisingly enough the 6 positions do not include a parallel linkage of the two coils which is really sweet sounding. (The capacitor used in the 6th position- inductive/capacitive- is 120pF although I liked the sound of 220pF better.)

Steve Ahola

[ReWind]

I had another thought on this. If I had wound two coils simultaneously, on the same bobbin, next to one another, I could have taken advantage of one being closer to the stings and the different tonality associated with that. I suppose I could have wound it twice as fast too.

...as opposed to one coil inside the other, I mean.

Didn't get a chance to test this last night, btw. This weekend, most likely.

[David Schwab]

I had another thought on this. If I had wound two coils simultaneously, on the same bobbin, next to one another, I could have taken advantage of one being closer to the stings and the different tonality associated with that. I suppose I could have wound it twice as fast too.

...as opposed to one coil inside the other, I mean.

Didn't get a chance to test this last night, btw. This weekend, most likely.

I've made stacked pickups. The bottom coil sounds very dark and mellow.

[ReWind]

Thanks, David. I would expect that, being farther from the strings, it would be a more mellow sound with the bottom coil.

I was thinking something like a lower turn count, lesser tension, higher TPL wind on the bottom coil with a slightly higher turn count, higher tension, and lower TPL wind on the top coil would make a nice pickup with two low output options (warmer/brighter) and a harmonically rich and complex full output pickup with both portions of the coil in use.

None of my machines could accommodate two different TPLs simultaneously though. I suppose I could hand wind one section of it. Hey, that might actually be really cool - a partially machine wound / partially hand wound coil.

[David Schwab]

Thanks, David. I would expect that, being farther from the strings, it would be a more mellow sound with the bottom coil.

I was thinking something like a lower turn count, lesser tension, higher TPL wind on the bottom coil with a slightly higher turn count, higher tension, and lower TPL wind on the top coil would make a nice pickup with two low output options (warmer/brighter) and a harmonically rich and complex full output pickup with both portions of the coil in use.

None of my machines could accommodate two different TPLs simultaneously though. I suppose I could hand wind one section of it. Hey, that might actually be really cool - a partially machine wound / partially hand wound coil.

Back in about 1979-80 I took the bobbins from two humbuckers* and stacked them on top of each other. I used the two screw coils on top, and two rows of screws. I had both keeper bars and one of the magnets. I was able to switch coils on and off. What I mostly used was the top two coils, which sounded like a standard PAF style humbucker, and the two bridge most stacked coils, as a hum canceling single coil. But I was also able to use the bottom two coils, all four, which was the extent of the switching I did. Obviously you could do more combinations.

Now if you are doing a stacked humbucker, they tend to be very bright with both coil on because of some low frequency cancelation. If you then switch them in phase, they no longer hum cancel, but get a lot louder. You will stacked humbuckers often being about 22k and up, and this is because of that low end cancelation. You also lose some power. So with matched coils the trick was to wind them very hot. And when switched into phase you get this super fat loud pickup.

The newer stacked pickups often use a smaller bottom coil made with fewer turns and heavier wire. Then it's shielded from the top coil's magnet with a thin piece of steel or mu metal. Then it has more steel in its core to make it more sensitive to hum. A good example of this is the DiMarzio virtual vintage pickups. Since the design is patented (5811710), you can see the basic layout. Duncan also has a similar pickup patented by Kevin Beller (7166793).


* The two humbuckers I used, from my parts box, were early Gibson patent label pickups. They were taken out of what was originally an early gold top with the trapeze bridge which had been converted to humbuckers and a wrap around bridge before my friend bought it. It was also painted brown. They were replaced with the first version of the DiMarzio PAF, which actually sounded better. Go figure!

Wish I had those pickups now!

[cenizasblancas]

I have a cuestion, if this type of design is patented is posible to make it for sell?

[Steve A.]

I was thinking something like a lower turn count, lesser tension, higher TPL wind on the bottom coil with a slightly higher turn count, higher tension, and lower TPL wind on the top coil would make a nice pickup with two low output options (warmer/brighter) and a harmonically rich and complex full output pickup with both portions of the coil in use.

None of my machines could accommodate two different TPLs simultaneously though. I suppose I could hand wind one section of it. Hey, that might actually be really cool - a partially machine wound / partially hand wound coil.

Could a custom bobbin be made with two sections? Or perhaps have two thinner bobbins that could be glued together? Just throwing out some ideas that probably aren't feasible...

Steve Ahola

P.S. Another idea: instead of having the two sections of the coil separated distinctly, maybe have some overlap in the two windings- like a taper. Can a winding machine be set to favor one side of the bobbin?

[David Schwab]

I have a cuestion, if this type of design is patented is posible to make it for sell?

If the patent is active, no.

[cenizasblancas]

If the patent is active, no.

But.... why if this pattent are active some pickup winders can sell using this invention?

(sorry if i bother you people with this cuestion, but i want to know because i´m interested in building pickup in that way too)

[big_teee]

But.... why if this pattent are active some pickup winders can sell using this invention?

(sorry if i bother you people with this cuestion, but i want to know because i´m interested in building pickup in that way too)

You will have to search the patents and see if they expired or not.
One more bit of information, Your doing fine with your English, but instead of cuestion, The word is Question, with a Q.
Good Luck,
T

[cenizasblancas]

You will have to search the patents and see if they expired or not.
One more bit of information, Your doing fine with your English, but instead of cuestion, The word is Question, with a Q.
Good Luck,
T

ja... sorry, i need to practice more...

Juan

[big_teee]

ja... sorry, i need to practice more...

Juan

Hang in there Friend, your doing fine!
T

[cenizasblancas]

the pattent number: 5811710, (which is the oldest), it was filed in 22 sep in 1998, according to this article:

When does a patent expire? | FPO Communities

It will expire in 2015... so... again my cuestion....maybe is posible to change something to make it legal?

[cenizasblancas]

the pattent number: 5811710, (which is the oldest), it was filed in 22 sep in 1998, according to this article:

When does a patent expire? | FPO Communities

It will expire in 2015... so... again my cuestion....maybe is posible to change something to make it legal?

sorry again.... i forgot the Q for question