First post..

[Justwannano]

just wanted to say thanks for getting me into this.

I finished building a winder and waiting for the wire to give it a go.
Not sure if it will all come together but it's been fun reading here
and getting inspired.

I'm just on old guy that spent years pickin on a guitar and some
years back decided to build them. No acoustic ones yet. After
finding this place I thought building the pups for them would be fun
to try.

So...thanks. You all have been a pleasure to read and it's great
you share like this. It's a great help for others that want it and
it may be nice to know you're appreciated.

[David King]

Hi JWN,

Welcome! You are too kind but we do love to give out free and mostly worthless advice so ask away. Best of luck with your new hobby but don't forget that pickin will get you further than winding most days of the week.
What part of the world are you located in? It's sometimes helpful for us to know when it comes to sourcing materials etc.

[SonnyW]

just wanted to say thanks for getting me into this.

I finished building a winder and waiting for the wire to give it a go.
Not sure if it will all come together but it's been fun reading here
and getting inspired.

I'm just on old guy that spent years pickin on a guitar and some
years back decided to build them. No acoustic ones yet. After
finding this place I thought building the pups for them would be fun
to try.

So...thanks. You all have been a pleasure to read and it's great
you share like this. It's a great help for others that want it and
it may be nice to know you're appreciated.

Welcome. Justwannano, to the pickup forum, or as I call it - Timesuck. Sounds like you're going to like it here. I'm an old guy too, did the same kind of thing, and started building some partscasters maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Also at that time was kind of a low budget collector of the old Japanese guitars. Started restoring some of them and one thing led to another, setups, then pickups, and overall, I've really learned a lot here, and on the rest of this MEF forum, and a few other forums. There are some real experts that hang here. I have made quite a few new friends too through the forums. This year I retired and can spend more time with it all as a part time business. And if the forum goes down for a day or two I start to get withdrawal symptoms.

[Justwannano]

Thanks for the welcome David and Sonny.

My name is Michael and I live and have lived in N. Louisiana for the last twenty years. When I'm not at home I'm in Arkansas lol.

I've been building a shop for the last year and just now getting comfortable to get back into building electrics and got sidetracked
with this new interest. I don't build guitars for the market either. I build them for myself but I have shipped them out of the country
as well as within.
I spent months reading about pups and felt kind of strange that I spent so many years playing and never gave them much thought...
and then decided to go for it.
I got the new Jason Lollar book after I managed to build my winder...seems many things happen out of order for me lol.
What a guy and inspiration. Sure enjoyed the book.
I saved old pups that I broke from changing them out..not sure how but would damage the little wire- so I rewound one the other night.
My first and was happy that the winder worked and I didn't break the wire. Soldered without issues and at 7,000 wraps 42awg hvy ( if the counter is correct)
I got a reading of 4k.
I'm going to rewind a few more Strat style while I wait on the wax to arrive. I'll go for 9,000 and 11,000 wraps. My reasoning is simple...just to
see it, do it and read them.
I have to many guitars but I've picked out one Strat that I will use to sound check all the pups.
I also have a Tele picked out to test all the pups for it.

I don't know enough to know what good questions are but if you have any suggestions for this very beginning phase of learning I'm all ears and your efforts
are appreciated as I am trying and serious. Not so I can sell them...so I can learn and use what I make.

Thanks again for the welcome.
Michael

[Stratz]

My first and was happy that the winder worked and I didn't break the wire. Soldered without issues and at 7,000 wraps 42awg hvy ( if the counter is correct)
I got a reading of 4k.
I'm going to rewind a few more Strat style while I wait on the wax to arrive. I'll go for 9,000 and 11,000 wraps. My reasoning is simple...just to
see it, do it and read them.

Hi Michael. 7,000 winds is a bit low for a Strat bobbin. The outer winds will raise the DCR much more quickly than the starting (inner) winds.
The inner winds that are close to the magnets make a smaller coil (less wire per turn) while the outside winds get larger (more wire per turn) so each turn uses more wire than the previous turn. More wire ='s higher DCR.

This is all depending on the diameter of your #42 wire but an average Strat pickup is usually somewhere between 7,500 and 8,500 winds. 9,000 is doable but 11,000 might be a stretch without having the bobbin ends flaring out or having the coil being too fat to fit a cover over it.

Some words of advice from experience. Try not to pay too much attention to DC resistance. The turn count is a more accurate way to build consistent pickups.

First thing would be to make sure your counter is working properly then you can use Salvarsans Coil Estimator to get a general idea of how many turns you will need to reach your target DCR.

Rob.

[Justwannano]

Hi Rob,
Thank you very much for the advice.
I think you would understand why 7,000 had you been there. I was so excited
and just vibrating in my stool...thought I was going to fall off it...when I saw
7,000 and I hadn't broke that little wire...I hit off.

I knew my next step was to see if I could solder it and get a reading...I reckon
something like being young on Christmas morning?

When I saw the meter hit 4ohms I admit it was mixed feelings.
I was so proud that I had made it that far and kind of hammering
on myself...feeling like I didn't study and prepare myself better to
get "closer".

I rewound another one last Saturday. I was going for 9,000 but stopped at 8,700.
I got a reading of 6.5k.

Since, I've been working out what I need to pot with and only yesterday found the
melter pot that I believe will be perfect for me. This is it.
I apologize if the link doesn't work...first try.

You are sure right too Rob as I don't see me getting 11,000 wraps on.

Looking forward to melting some wax now and hearing them- knowing the first one is probably junk but maybe the
second will be of use. At least it's been fun so far.

Appreciate ya Rob and thanks for the link too, cool.
Michael

[Stratz]

When I saw the meter hit 4ohms I admit it was mixed feelings.
I was so proud that I had made it that far and kind of hammering
on myself...feeling like I didn't study and prepare myself better to
get "closer".

I rewound another one last Saturday. I was going for 9,000 but stopped at 8,700.
I got a reading of 6.5k.

Since, I've been working out what I need to pot with and only yesterday found the
melter pot that I believe will be perfect for me. This is it.
I apologize if the link doesn't work...first try.

You are sure right too Rob as I don't see me getting 11,000 wraps on.

Looking forward to melting some wax now and hearing them- knowing the first one is probably junk but maybe the
second will be of use. At least it's been fun so far.

Appreciate ya Rob and thanks for the link too, cool.
Michael

If you still have the 7,000W coil (haven't stripped it to use over) and you're using a solderable poly coated wire you can simply tie a knot in the end of it to your spool of wire and solder it together then continue winding to make it a useable pickup. If you're using a wire other than poly such as Plain Enamel you will have to sand the insulation off first before soldering to the copper

I've gone over 10,000 winds of #42 on a Strat bobbin and wound up with a nice coil but I wound it slowly and tried to feed it like a automated winder would (as best as one can guiding the wire by hand)

If you make sure your counter is working 100% accurate then all of the other things that seem to be off will be because of differences in the wire diameter from spool to spool (and even within the same spool) and from the wire stretching as you hold it tighter between your fingers.

Rob.

[big_teee]

If you still have the 7,000W coil (haven't stripped it to use over) and you're using a solderable poly coated wire you can simply tie a knot in the end of it to your spool of wire and solder it together then continue winding to make it a useable pickup. If you're using a wire other than poly such as Plain Enamel you will have to sand the insulation off first before soldering to the copper

I've gone over 10,000 winds of #42 on a Strat bobbin and wound up with a nice coil but I wound it slowly and tried to feed it like a automated winder would (as best as one can guiding the wire by hand)

If you make sure your counter is working 100% accurate then all of the other things that seem to be off will be because of differences in the wire diameter from spool to spool (and even within the same spool) and from the wire stretching as you hold it tighter between your fingers.

Rob.

I agree with Stratz.
One more thing that effects the amount of turns possible, is bobbin height.
Winders vary drastically, on bobbin height.
11mm is considered the standard, around .433 inches between the flatwork.
Some guys wind as short as .390", and as tall as .475" or even .50"
I stay in the .425-.440" range.
Of course that would effect magnet length.
Good luck,
T

[Justwannano]

I'll measure the bobbin this eve. It's a standard Fender pup.
I used 42 heavy plain enamel.
I ordered 42 and 43 PE along with some pup kits from Stu-Mac.

This is the counter I'm using with a reed switch.
I used a laser rpm meter to try and check it. It stopped counting @890 rpm's the best I remember.
It seemed much faster than what I go so assumed it's accurate at my speeds. I really don't know
a way to confirm it's accuracy.

I have a 4 day weekend so I'll add some to the 7,000 one before potting.

Thank you Rob and Terry.
Michael

[big_teee]

I'll measure the bobbin this eve. It's a standard Fender pup.
I used 42 heavy plain enamel.
I ordered 42 and 43 PE along with some pup kits from Stu-Mac.

This is the counter I'm using with a reed switch.
I used a laser rpm meter to try and check it. It stopped counting @890 rpm's the best I remember.
It seemed much faster than what I go so assumed it's accurate at my speeds. I really don't know
a way to confirm it's accuracy.

I have a 4 day weekend so I'll add some to the 7,000 one before potting.

Thank you Rob and Terry.
Michael

Sounds like your well on your way.
One more comment on bobbin height.
Short fat coils are usually rounder and darker sounding.
Taller & thin would be real bright, medium tall and medium fat should be somewhere in the middle tonally wise.
So you can see on Strat type single coils there is lots of room to experiment.
Now add different gauges of wire, and thicknesses of insulation, like Single or Heavy wires.
That's why you can spend countless hours, and a scrap wire box full of wire getting the recipe you like.
Another reason most guys don't give out lots of specifics!
T

[Stratz]

The CUB3 is a good counter just a little hard to see.
If you get an optical sensor that will work with the CUB it should be 100% accurate.

If you take it slow with the reed switch you should be fine.

Also, in my opinion, Alnico 2 makes for a beautiful sounding Strat neck pickup. I use A2 on most all of my Strat neck pickups

[Justwannano]

It is hard to see Rob. I have to bend down to check it.
I thought when I started this that I'd probably redesign the
winder when I got a handle on things. Relocating it and angle change
are needed.

I measured these stock bobbins I've rewound and they are hittin around 11mm depending on where I measure.

I'll be checking on an optical sensor now.

Alnico 2 is what I ordered from Stu...it was here when I got home today
along with a Tele bridge kit- Alnico 2 also.
And my wire.

I'm set for a fun weekend of winding and learning about the Pickup Coil Estimator..I have to get bobbin measurements together and wire info. Hope if had beginners luck working on the first two that it holds out longer.

I also got the eyelet tool from Stu...the wire caught on one of the eyelets
on the second pup. I had to cut off 2,000 wraps and start over. Glad I caught
it when I did. All part of it? Well the bobbin didn't fly off and poke my eye out
so I wasn't upset about the wire lol.

Thanks again Rob. Your time and help is appreciated very much.
Michael

[Stratz]

It is hard to see Rob. I have to bend down to check it.
I thought when I started this that I'd probably redesign the
winder when I got a handle on things. Relocating it and angle change
are needed.

I measured these stock bobbins I've rewound and they are hittin around 11mm depending on where I measure.

I'll be checking on an optical sensor now.

Alnico 2 is what I ordered from Stu...it was here when I got home today
along with a Tele bridge kit- Alnico 2 also.
And my wire.

I'm set for a fun weekend of winding and learning about the Pickup Coil Estimator..I have to get bobbin measurements together and wire info. Hope if had beginners luck working on the first two that it holds out longer.

I also got the eyelet tool from Stu...the wire caught on one of the eyelets
on the second pup. I had to cut off 2,000 wraps and start over. Glad I caught
it when I did. All part of it? Well the bobbin didn't fly off and poke my eye out
so I wasn't upset about the wire lol.

Thanks again Rob. Your time and help is appreciated very much.
Michael

I use a small punch to counter sink my eyelets before I install them. After you you put your eyelets in make sure that you have the big end (factory rolled end) of the eyelet facing the bottom of the pickup. This way the wire wont get caught on it. It also makes it easier to make a nice strong solder joint.

Be sure to test your pickups for continuity between the start and finish wires to each pole piece before and after potting. If there's any continuity then you need to insulate the magnets from the magnet wire before winding. I use 12mm Kaptan tape but some builders just use Scotch Magic tape which seems to work.

Rob.

[enkindler]

FYI, these little counters are great.

Programmable Digital Timer Counter Accumulator up to 9999 day

I think there are other sellers but I have had good luck with this place.

If you don't need to track more than 9999 turns you can set it up to stop at a particular count too. The built in relay is only rated at 3A at 110V so you may need to drive another relay.

They do have a 6 (all on one line) digit counter but I haven't seen on and it is more expensive.

[Justwannano]

Rob the bobbins are plastic that I rewound so the wire doesn't contact the polls.
I'm very glad you brought the testing to my attention.
I am confused though. I'm assuming that one winds a layer then tests.?
Heat is probably why the eyelet got loose and caught the wire.

I also measured them and they were @11mm.

I think the Stewmac kits are very nice-glad I got the eyelet tool and the punch
tip is well taken.

I sure like the counter. I'm sure not into electronics so it's going to take me time
to learn about it and the optical sensor. Both are great upgrade ideas I hope to use.

I'm curious and hope you don't mind a question...would spraying the bobbin with
polyurathane work rather than tapping the poles? Additional time but seems it could
be an alternative to taping.
Now asking this I'm displaying my ignorance of the wire too...if spraying is a good alternative would it also be a good idea to spray after winding-before potting- additional protection from the hot wax?
I do apologize if those are dumb questions...

Isaac has LA wet so I'm inside...probably have talked to much.

Thank you guys,
Michael

[Stratz]

Rob the bobbins are plastic that I rewound so the wire doesn't contact the polls.
I'm very glad you brought the testing to my attention.
I am confused though. I'm assuming that one winds a layer then tests.?

..would spraying the bobbin with
polyurethane work rather than tapping the poles? Additional time but seems it could
be an alternative to taping.
Now asking this I'm displaying my ignorance of the wire too...if spraying is a good alternative would it also be a good idea to spray after winding-before potting- additional protection from the hot wax?
I do apologize if those are dumb questions...

Isaac has LA wet so I'm inside...probably have talked to much.

Thank you guys,
Michael

They're not dumb questions. It's very important stuff to know.
I didn't know you were winding plastic bobbins but no, I didn't mean a test wind. I was just recommending that you test for shorts after you have wound a few pickups. Some wire insulation's are more flexible than others and old wire insulation may get brittle over time. Some people wind very tight which may cause shorts early on in the wind. Basically it's just a good idea to check for shorts if you're using forbon bobbins rather than plastic where the wire touches the magnet rods.

I usually dip my bobbins in lacquer (I actually let them soak for a while) for a couple of reasons. To keep the Forbon from warping over time and to get the vintage Fender look. Some people dip them to protect the magnets from shorting out too but I've been using the Kaptan tape for many years now so I don't have to worry about shorts any more and warping is something that I mostly see on older Tele bridge pickups.

If I don't have any bobbins made up and I'm in a hurry I'll just spray them with lacquer for the look. I dont need to dip them because I use tape.
I have a thin rod on the wall in my garage that I can slide a bunch of bobbins on using the center hole and I just give them a good spin and spray them with fast drying lacquer while they're turning. I let them dry and repeat the step once or twice more depending on how shiny I want them to look. Then I magnetize them, set the Gauss level of each rod, file out the eyelet and sand it to remove any lacquer for easier soldering of the hook up wires.... and then I can wind them.

I wouldn't recommend spraying anything on the wire if you're going to wax pot the pickups. The wax fills the air space between the winds which stops any vibration that can cause the coil to become microphonic.

Rob.

[Justwannano]

Rob you've made my morning coffee most excellent.

Wonderful information and you explain/share it very well.

The only plastic bobbins I have are the two I used to start out on. They seemed perfect for taking abuse from me.
Now that I have a mounting method and a little winding experience/feel I'm a little
more comfortable with winding and not destroying stuff.

I'll be adding Kaptan tape and lacquer soaking/spraying to the mix.

While I'm waiting on getting the potting part of these rewinds done I'm gathering
materials and tools to assemble and prepping bobbins so this information is perfect.

You and the other contributors are making the start of this venture so much easier and a pleasure- I sure thank you for that.


Michael