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  1. #211
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    This is a Ubuntu linux thread.
    Primarily to promote Ubuntu, and Linux Mint!
    My intent, when I started this thread, was to promote new users to try and to use Linux.
    Not scare new users away with how complicated it can be.
    Linux, like windows, can be simple and graphical (GUI).
    Ubuntu and Mint are very easy to use and install, and can be easier to use IMO than windows.
    So if you are a complex user, and are coming to this thread to argue about all the different OS problems, and issues?
    Maybe we need to start another thread for that?
    You don't need to be an engineer to use Linux.
    Ubuntu, and Mint are very easy to use out of the box.
    They can be loaded and used by nearly anyone!
    Please give them a try, and yes they are still FREE!
    https://linuxmint.com/
    https://www.ubuntu.com/
    Thank You,
    Terry

    **To try linux, download it, put it on a DVD, or USB, and try it temporarily live.
    Then to go back to windows, remove the DVD or USB and reboot back to windows.
    Very painless!
    Last edited by big_teee; 11-28-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: spelling
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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Maybe we need to start another thread for that?
    You are right, I have said my piece, and there will be nothing more from me on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    To try linux, download it, put it on a DVD, or USB, and try it temporarily live.
    And this amazing ability, still unavailable from Windows or OSX, has been widely available in the Linux world since 2003, when Knoppix Linux arrived. (Knoppix was not the first Linux live-CD, but it was the first one that was really good, and was widely and freely distributed over the Internet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Then to go back to windows, remove the DVD or USB and reboot back to windows.
    Very painless!
    The only painful part being, you are back in Windows!

    For those who get past the "Try a Linux live-USB" stage, you can also install both Windows and Linux on the same computer, and choose which one you want each time you start up the computer. I did this for a few months around the year 2000, when I had not yet found Linux alternatives for all the Windows software I used at the time, and so I would go back and forth between them. But by 2001, that had changed, and I found I was never booting into Windows any more.

    (After 2004 I got into another hobby that required a Windows-only application, and went back to dual-booting for a few years, just for that one single application.)

    But big_teee's basic point is worth underscoring: if you are a typical computer user, Linux is easy to try, and quite likely will meet your needs. If you are a more advanced computer user with a technical mindset, Linux will very likely meet your needs, because you will know how to make it do so. This is why engineering and science and research departments are full of Linux users.

    The people least likely to be served by Linux are very specialized computer users, who spend their time using extremely expensive proprietary software (3D CAD, custom financial or CRM software, etc). That type of software will often not have a Linux version.

    -Gnobuddy
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  3. #213
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I also did the dual boot on my Wife's computer.
    Windows shared with Ubuntu.
    I did that so my granddaughter could use the windows.
    That was the intent, but Linux runs so much faster, everyone uses the Ubuntu, not the win10.
    I have 4 laptops that I personally use, all multi-boot linux only.
    When I buy a new laptop, I swap the hard drive out and stick it in a drawer for about a year.
    That way if I need windows for something, then I have it.
    Then I reformat and install linux on the year old, and older drives.
    Long live the Penguin!
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  4. #214
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I know you like to start threads with some specific purpose and never stray from it. But I have to say until you just said that, I was not aware your purpose was to promote it in any way. I thought you wanted a technical discussion of it.

    To me, I haven't seen a lot of reason to switch. Unless you just like futzing with computers, which is OK. I don't get the screen shots, they all just look like computer screens to me. Unless the subtle differences in function names and button positions is what matters. I am not saying you didn't convince me, I am saying I didn't see anything as selling it to me.

    For example dual boot PCs. I guess in this day of terabyte hard drives, why bother to remove the original windows? Just make the other your default and leave it there.

    MAy I suggest for next time a thread title like "Why you would like Ubuntu" or something. I do appreciate that my questions were handled.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  5. #215
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I know you like to start threads with some specific purpose and never stray from it. But I have to say until you just said that, I was not aware your purpose was to promote it in any way. I thought you wanted a technical discussion of it.

    To me, I haven't seen a lot of reason to switch. Unless you just like futzing with computers, which is OK. I don't get the screen shots, they all just look like computer screens to me. Unless the subtle differences in function names and button positions is what matters. I am not saying you didn't convince me, I am saying I didn't see anything as selling it to me.

    For example dual boot PCs. I guess in this day of terabyte hard drives, why bother to remove the original windows? Just make the other your default and leave it there.

    MAy I suggest for next time a thread title like "Why you would like Ubuntu" or something. I do appreciate that my questions were handled.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I have 4 laptops that I personally use...
    Four?!? I'm assuming that at least one is ensconced in GladWrap ��
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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by minim View Post
    Four?!? I'm assuming that at least one is ensconced in GladWrap ��
    I admit, I have a laptop fetish! lol
    I have one in the Living room, I use at my recliner.
    It has had a fall or two, and is not in the greatest shape, but still works fine.
    I have a 4 year old Toshiba, that has a bios problem, that I'm fixing to work on.
    It will not boot on any external mdeia anymore.
    I have a last years model Blue HP 15, that I use to test linux loads with, it currently has 5 or six distros on it.
    And, I have the new i5, that I pulled the windows drive, and put a linux replacement drive in.
    I am going to put it in place of the Toshiba, while I work on it.
    The Toshiba will get fixed, or get a Viking Funeral!
    My wife has a Red Model 15 HP,(laptop #5) that I maintain, but don't use, cause she says I'm always changing everything.
    I don't get user privileges with it.
    They are all cheapies, and the most expensive one was the i5 version, and I gave $350 for it.
    So with 4, at least one should work at a time!
    None in glad wrap! None with windows, all with 2 or more linux distros loaded.
    T
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  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    To me, I haven't seen a lot of reason to switch.
    Just today, I got an email message in my work inbox from Microsoft Quarantine. It informed me that Microsoft had caught a message they thought might be spam, and had quarantined it for me, and what would I like them to do about it?

    What the heck? What I'd like is for Microsoft to stay out of my inbox, and not snoop through all my incoming email. My employers already do that; I accept that work email is not private, but there is a big difference between my employer scanning my work email, and Microsoft, the powerful and unethical corporation, scanning through it.

    I have never heard of Microsoft Quarantine before, but I'm assuming this is now part of the "service" you get if you're an Outlook user (unwillingly, in my case).

    This sort of completely unwarranted intrusion into my life would, all by itself, be enough to make me switch to Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Unless you just like futzing with computers, which is OK.
    In my case, I did like futzing with PC hardware circa 1998 or so, when it was all new to me. I'm not particularly interested in PC hardware these days, but I am interested in the frightening amount of corporate and government snooping that goes on when you use Microsoft or Windows. And the staggering number of security vulnerabilities in Windows, in particular.

    I also find I can get more stuff done with Linux on my computer, than with Windows. I am currently forced to use Windows at work, so I see this difference every day, from needless double-clicking in Windows, to stupid software layouts that force multiple mouse movements and mouse clicks when one click does it in Linux, to the simple fact that a fresh install of Linux comes with most of the software you need to do most computing tasks, all of it free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I don't get the screen shots, they all just look like computer screens to me.
    Pretty much the same here...I usually do customize my desktops to my tastes, but I can do that on most any operating system, I don't particularly expect you to like my choices, and it isn't an important feature to me in any case.

    But not having MS snoop through my email? Not living in fear of some creep encrypting my hard drive and trying to extort a ransom? Not having bizarre limitations forced on me (such as not being able to type an HTML page in Notepad and save it with a .html extension on Windows, which insists on attaching a ".txt" to the filename)? Those things are all well worth fleeing Windows for, in my book.

    An analogy: Suppose you bought a car made by a company called MightyScabia, or MS, for short. It turns out the door locks don't work well, so every time you come back to your parked car, there is a vagrant snoring in the back seat, the seat-covers and floor mats are missing, and there are dried bloodstains on the dashboard. There is also a note saying that someone stole your passport out of the glove-box, and is demanding a $1000 ransome for its return.

    When you ask around, it turns out that this sort of thing happens to about 50% of people who own the same car. Would you buy an other MightyScabia after that experience?

    I don't understand why people put up with the amount of @$%& stuff that happens when you use Windows. People would not put up with equally shoddy security in any material product - why does MS get a free pass?

    -Gnobuddy
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  9. #219
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I know you like to start threads with some specific purpose and never stray from it. But I have to say until you just said that, I was not aware your purpose was to promote it in any way. I thought you wanted a technical discussion of it.

    To me, I haven't seen a lot of reason to switch. Unless you just like futzing with computers, which is OK. I don't get the screen shots, they all just look like computer screens to me. Unless the subtle differences in function names and button positions is what matters. I am not saying you didn't convince me, I am saying I didn't see anything as selling it to me.

    For example dual boot PCs. I guess in this day of terabyte hard drives, why bother to remove the original windows? Just make the other your default and leave it there.

    MAy I suggest for next time a thread title like "Why you would like Ubuntu" or something. I do appreciate that my questions were handled.
    I'm not trying to sell you on anything.
    If it's not for you, fine.
    I do like messing with computers.
    I do like trying different things.
    Like the amp guys labor over every cap and resistor.
    Try it if you like, don't try it if you don't.
    I do screen shots some to show non linux users what it can look like.
    As far as the thread name change?
    You only get one shot at naming the thread, you can't change it, unless you are the mod for the sub-forum.
    Also the thread was started in 2012, and been around a long time!
    Thread name Ubuntu is fine! It tells what it is about, UBUNTU.
    T
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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-30-2017 at 05:07 AM.
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  10. #220
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Gnobuddy, I make this observation: You don't like Microsoft looking through your email for malware, but I bet you have some sort of antivirus software going, and that means SOMEONE is looking through your email.

    tee, I was responding to this:
    This is a Ubuntu linux thread.
    Primarily to promote Ubuntu
    I didn't accuse anyone of selling, but promoting comes close. I merely suggested NEXT TIME a more descriptive title might help. I didn't realize your purpose was to promote it, I thought you just wanted to talk about it.

    As to amp guys: Some start threads like "MY Twin Reverb red plates power tubes", while others title the same thread "Amplifier issues".

    I don't know where else to ask my dumb questions. Most of them only occur to me while reading through your thread. So I ask them here.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Gnobuddy, I make this observation: You don't like Microsoft looking through your email for malware, but I bet you have some sort of antivirus software going, and that means SOMEONE is looking through your email.

    tee, I was responding to this:

    I didn't accuse anyone of selling, but promoting comes close. I merely suggested NEXT TIME a more descriptive title might help. I didn't realize your purpose was to promote it, I thought you just wanted to talk about it.

    As to amp guys: Some start threads like "MY Twin Reverb red plates power tubes", while others title the same thread "Amplifier issues".

    I don't know where else to ask my dumb questions. Most of them only occur to me while reading through your thread. So I ask them here.
    That is all fine and good.
    I always get the impression you're getting on to me for my obsession with computers and linux.
    One of the few thrills I have left!
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    Technicians Run the World, but Bankers, Lawyers, and Accountants, Take All The Credit!
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  12. #222
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Also, I can't sell if, there's nothing to buy!
    IT'S FREEE.
    Technicians Run the World, but Bankers, Lawyers, and Accountants, Take All The Credit!
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    Terry

  13. #223
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Nah, your obsession is fine. Some guys like fishing, some like NASCAR, some like computers. I don't care for any of those things. But I might ask a guy how he catches a 20 pound fish on "4 pound" line. I might ask a NASCAR guy if their ignition systems use the computer boxes or some other system. And I want to understand the attractions here. That's all.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  14. #224
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
    Just today, I got an email message in my work inbox from Microsoft Quarantine. It informed me that Microsoft had caught a message they thought might be spam, and had quarantined it for me, and what would I like them to do about it?

    What the heck? What I'd like is for Microsoft to stay out of my inbox, and not snoop through all my incoming email. My employers already do that; I accept that work email is not private, but there is a big difference between my employer scanning my work email, and Microsoft, the powerful and unethical corporation, scanning through it.

    I have never heard of Microsoft Quarantine before, but I'm assuming this is now m,part of the "service" you get if you're an Outlook user (unwillingly, in my case).
    Microsoft Outlook and Quarantine are components of Office 365 so your employer has given Microsoft permission to snoop in your email scanning for viruses and other malware. I guess you are using your employer's computer so you probably have no say in the matter.

    https://support.office.com/en-us/art...5-98fcccfc639b

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Gnobuddy, I make this observation: You don't like Microsoft looking through your email for malware, but I bet you have some sort of antivirus software going
    Nope, no anti-virus software. Google for Linux viruses "in the wild", and see what you come up with - there aren't any! So there's no need to run anti-virus software on a Linux computer, particularly if you use a well supported distribution and apply all security patches promptly. I use Xubuntu LTS (Long Term Support), for which security updates are provided for five years, by which time, I will move to the next newer LTS version.

    You may be right that someone is snooping through my mail - everything on the 'Net is now spied on, by powerful government agencies like the NSA, by ISPs who provide your Internet access, by corporations like Google (terms of service for Gmail specify that they read through it and try to tailor their advertising to your tastes), by the Mafia, by hackers all over the world.

    Even if that is so, why would you add one more large, rich, powerful, and unscrupulous corporation to the long line of entities already snooping on you? If you have one dog in your neighbourhood that tries to bite you every time it sees you, would it motivate you to invite other people with hostile dogs to move into your neighbourhood, too?

    Back to the Linux virus issue, there have been a few proof-of-concept Linux viruses in the labs, and there have been some Linux worms that did make it out of the lab and onto the 'Net. But they are incredibly few and far between compared to Windows viruses and malware. Last time I checked, many years ago, the number of active Windows malware threats numbered in the hundreds of thousands. For Linux? I think not even in the tens. And entirely new categories of Windows malware have sprung up since then, such as cryptware/ransomware.

    I am not suggesting there is such a thing as an invulnerable operating system - there isn't. But there are operating systems with a terrible record for (lack of ) security, and others with far fewer blemishes in their history. Windows has the worst security record of any operating system that has ever existed on planet earth, and by a wide margin, at that.

    Incidentally, I don't know what is standard operating procedure for anti-virus software these days, but in ye good olde days, it was dumb software searching for the signatures of various forms of malware that might exist in files on your computer. There wasn't any snooping into things like email or written documents, the anti-virus software was far too dumb to have a clue what was in them anyway.

    Things might very well be different now, with Google, et al having created some pretty powerful AI software that can parse through spoken and written human languages, and glean at least some "understanding" as to what is being said / communicated. (One reason why I have no Gmail account.)

    Big Brother (and Big Sister) are, indeed, watching all of us these days. But I'm not going to put in plate-glass roofs and walls to make it even easier for him/her.

    Leaving all these more subjective issues aside, I feel no lack in Linux - there isn't really anything I wish I had, and cannot get, on Linux. So why would I want to move to another operating system, particularly one that is much less secure, much less flexible, runs slower, and costs more?

    -Gnobuddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    Microsoft Outlook and Quarantine are components of Office 365 so your employer has given Microsoft permission to snoop in your email scanning for viruses and other malware. I guess you are using your employer's computer so you probably have no say in the matter.
    Thank you for that, I suspected something along those lines.

    And you're quite right, at work, I have limited choice, I have to use at least some parts of the software ecosystem provided by my employer. But this revelation about MS snooping through my email has me thinking I might take my own Linux PC to work, and see if I can't get most of my work done without having to use Windows.

    I might not have a choice when it comes to Outlook (the 'Web version will still be linked to Microsoft Snooping Dot Com), but I might be able to plug other security leaks that are surely part of the Windows eco-system I'm forced to use at work now.

    -Gnobuddy

  17. #227
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    I use ClamAV to periodically scan my Ubuntu Linux home folder, for virus, and malware.
    I don't use anything real time.
    No email, or web scanning, that slows down the web browser too much!
    I do use U-block real time ad blocker!
    I periodically scan my home folder for Virus, and Malware.
    That way I can rule out that I am passing anything on to other users.
    See Screenshot, of ClamTK, scan.
    T
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  18. #228
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    There are definitely viruses and malware for Linux, not as much as for Windows or Microsoft products, because Microsoft dominates the market, so obviously there will be more developed for that software. That's changing though. You just can't be careless as a user... that's always the main thing, and that goes for any OS.

    However, there are plenty of vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel and specific distros, Debian/Ubuntu obviously have the most, as Debian derivatives are the most used, and so the most are found on it. In fact the past couple of years there's been much more vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel and Debian/Ubuntu distros than Windows OS. The good thing about Linux and Mac is they get patched rather quickly, but Windows is on the ball as well, last I checked, as they should be.

    I didn't think Windows 7 or 10 was that bad at all when I had it running, I eventually ran into issue and I'm more familiar with Unix OS's than Windows, so I scrapped it after I got a Macbook to run my DAW software with my outboard AD/DA converters.

    I still don't think I'd tell someone to switch from Windows 10 to Ubuntu if they have no interest in learning Linux and are already familiar with Windows, just your average computer user, no. Linux has come a long way though, on the desktop that is. They still have a bunch of stuff to work out under the hood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imf View Post
    because Microsoft dominates the market, so obviously there will be more developed for that software.
    I've heard this from Microsoft for fifteen years now, but the facts don't bear out the claim. MS may dominate the desktop, but Linux dominates servers - the very computers most at risk from worms, viruses, and other internet threats. Here are a few excerpts from this September's Netcraft survey of nearly nine million servers (full article here: https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2...er-survey.html)

    Quote Originally Posted by Netcraft
    While more than half of the websites in the survey are using Microsoft web server software, relatively few of these are active sites. Discounting link farms, domain holding pages and other automatically generated content, Microsoft accounts for only 7.3% of all active sites, while Apache leads with 44.9%, and nginx follows with 20.7%. Microsoft's active sites share has never exceeded Apache's, and ever since it peaked at 38% in early 2009, it has experienced a general decline.

    Microsoft's presence within the top million websites has also been steadily declining in 2008, it had a 20% share, but this has since dwindled to less than 10%. Today, 9.73% of the top million sites use Microsoft web server software (mostly IIS Internet Information Services), while Apache leads with 38.9%. However, Apache has also been experiencing a general decline since 2011, while nginx has continued to muscle its way in. A further 1,299 nginx-powered sites made their way into the top million this month, lifting nginx's share to 29.4%.
    Web-facing operating systems

    Apache has been the most commonly installed web server for many years, but which underlying operating systems are used by the world's web facing computers?

    By far the most commonly used operating system is Linux, which runs on more than two-thirds of all web-facing computers. This month alone, the number of Linux computers increased by more than 91,000; and again, this strong growth can largely be attributed to cloud hosting providers, where Linux-based instances are typically the cheapest and most commonly available.
    Big teee doesn't want these sorts of discussions in this thread, but I thought it was worth noting that Microsoft's claim "we're only insecure because we own the biggest market share" isn't true. In fact, MS is so insecure that fewer than a third of web servers run it these days, and those that do, often have a vested interest (MS owns them, say).

    In years past, there was a period when MS used to host their own Hotmail email service on servers running FreeBSD - not Windows - a fact which caused much merriment among the Open-Source community.

    -Gnobuddy

  20. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
    I've heard this from Microsoft for fifteen years now, but the facts don't bear out the claim. MS may dominate the desktop, but Linux dominates servers - the very computers most at risk from worms, viruses, and other internet threats. Here are a few excerpts from this September's Netcraft survey of nearly nine million servers (full article here: https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2...er-survey.html)



    Big teee doesn't want these sorts of discussions in this thread, but I thought it was worth noting that Microsoft's claim "we're only insecure because we own the biggest market share" isn't true. In fact, MS is so insecure that fewer than a third of web servers run it these days, and those that do, often have a vested interest (MS owns them, say).

    In years past, there was a period when MS used to host their own Hotmail email service on servers running FreeBSD - not Windows - a fact which caused much merriment among the Open-Source community.

    -Gnobuddy
    All OS are at risk for viruses and malware just the same. Microsoft definitely dominated the desktop by a long shot, Mac is huge now and Linux is nowhere close. I am talking about general computer users here, not servers.

    As far as servers go, there are more vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel and OS's than Windows 10 or Windows server for the past 5 years at least. There has been plenty of vulnerabilities in Apache.

    Microsoft Azure is huge in the cloud as well, although you can run anything you want on it.

  21. #231
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    Ubuntu Linux is still a great OS, and it is still Free.
    https://www.ubuntu.com/
    All the Supporting software, like office, AV, various editors, utilities, firewalls, etc, are also free.
    With the Cost Factor, all the individual file & control, AV resistance, etc?
    It wins in my book, hands down!
    Other security features I also enable, are UEFI, & Secure Boot.
    With Ubuntu you can enable both!
    Every time I get a new laptop with win 8.1, or win 10, I can't get rid of the Windows quick enough.
    Linux is Fast and efficient, and makes a fine desktop!
    YMMV,
    T
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Ubuntu Linux is still a great OS, and it is still Free.
    https://www.ubuntu.com/
    Which version of Ubuntu is that teee? It has the taskbar at the bottom. The one I tried had the taskbar at the top like the picture in your link.

  23. #233
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave H View Post
    Which version of Ubuntu is that teee? It has the taskbar at the bottom. The one I tried had the taskbar at the top like the picture in your link.
    I run XFCE for the desktop.
    It starts out with the top panel, but is real easy to move it to the bottom.
    This one would be the one to start with.
    https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=xubuntu
    If you decide to load it, I can help you get it to the bottom.
    Panel preferences, unlock the panel, and drag it to the bottom, and relock the panel.
    see screenshots.
    T
    **The small vertical panel on lower left is set to autohide.
    It is not normally visible, until you run the cursor over it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screenshot-2017-12-08-12-13-26.png   screenshot-2017-12-08-12-13-49.png  
    Technicians Run the World, but Bankers, Lawyers, and Accountants, Take All The Credit!
    Keep Rockin! B_T
    Terry

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    Thanks, I'll give it a try.
    big_teee likes this.

  25. #235
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave H View Post
    Thanks, I'll give it a try.
    Please let us know how it turns out!
    GL,
    T
    Technicians Run the World, but Bankers, Lawyers, and Accountants, Take All The Credit!
    Keep Rockin! B_T
    Terry

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