The pain of buying a car...

[casey73]

Instead of the usual political stuff that often lands in this forum, I thought I'd take the opportunity to vent a little about something I suspect almost everyone can agree on. The unpleasant task of purchasing a car, be it new or used, from a car dealership.

In the last 22 months I have purchased a brand new Honda from a dealer, and just last week a used Honda from a private party. Just prior to buying the used Honda last week, I did stop at the local used Honda dealer, just long enough to remind my self why I avoid going to car dealerships in general, and used car dealers especially.

The process of purchasing the brand new Honda was less unpleasant than other car dealer experiences I've had, but not without what seems to be an industry requirement of sticking it to the customer and assuming we are all idots who actually believe some of the bullshit that comes out of the "sales team".

We did our reasearch and knew exatcly the car we wanted right down to the color. It was a huge dealership and I knew we could find what we wanted on the lot. Our salesman was more pleasant than average, and within 45 minutes we found our vehicle. We didn't mention a trade, and made an offer. In short order they countered with an acceptable price. We asked if there would be any additional charges added on and he said no. Then the rest of the "sales team" came out and after shucking and jiving a while they added "doc fees" (to cover their paperwork costs) and an added charge for some non-factor door trim on the edge of the doors. They knew that we knew it was bullshit, but we all pretended they were valid charges. After that, I told them we had a trade, and we actually got almost what I wanted in trade. My consolation was that the 3 year old Saturn we traded needed $6k worth of work, which they didn't ask and I didn't tell them about. The car looked cherry so they gave me a good trade in. So that wasn't bad, but it still wasn't enjoyable. When you are spending $24K, you'd think it could be pleasant, but it wasn't.

Last week I stepped on to the used Honda dealership, right next to the new Honda dealership. There was a guy waiting before I even turned my engine off.
He started yapping as soon as we stepped out of the car, and other than telling him we were looking for a used Accord, I never said another word for the entire 10 minutes we were there. He talked continuously, weaving this very long and obviously contrived story about the great little 96 Civic (ignoring that I was looking for an Accord) with only 151K miles on it, and all the trouble he went to to find it for the son of a Honda exec, only to have the guy blow him off. The $7K price dropped $2k before we got back to the car. Then he asked us to wait "just a minute" so he could go in and get his business card because he forgot them. Geez, I never heard that one before!! We just got in the car and drove away. An hour later I purchased a great used Accord from a private party at about $2k less than I'd have paid at a dealer without all the bullshit.

I'm sure many here could match my story and make it pale in comparrison. My question, which is right up there with other existential ponderings is this. How has the process of purchasing a car from a dealership evolved into an almost universally unpleasant experience? Why do car dealers feel that it has to be this way? They could, if they chose, make it a pleasant experience, but it has remained a living nightmare for most people that I know. I'm a pretty smart guy, but I cannot figure this one out. I now buy things on line, and even the in store experience for big ticket items has been for me in recent years, easy and sometimes actually pleasant, as it should be. How and why has this dinosaur, the car dealer, remainded largely unchanged in his methods in this brave new world of ours?

[Satamax]

i can't say i've encopuntered one like this in the past twenty years, but i haven't been in a car dealership for teh past twenty years Wen i was a kid with my grand ma! But if you don't want the bullshit, you tell the guy to shut the fuck up straight away! I sometimes get ski dealers give me bullshit, and sorry i think, having done that job in teh past, as well as some engineering, mechanics, and plasturgy, a litle of each i agree. I think i know better than most of them. To the local ones, i show my chairlift company jacket, usualy they start to sus something. I am under the opinion that your car dealer was real bad. I think, over here it's not as bas, since most of the people don't like agresive sales techniques. For example, telephone marketing, they get hang onto them pretty fast once i know who they are. And i think most of eurolanders do as well. Phone is private, and in the house, and i think we feel that's an intrusion. Thought i've liked to deal with some of your fellows american. For example, a company who has a bad reputation for bullshiting has always been nice and courteous. That's new sensor. Thought i don't like your internet pawn shops or similar, got stung few times on computer memory. I should say boogie is courteous and helpfull too.

[Brad1]

Car dealers are trained to "be in charge" and try to keep you off balance hoping you'll get confused and sign a bad deal.

Don't let them do it. You are in charge. Disarm them the moment they walk up.

Do your research to find out what the dealer likely pays for that brand new car on the lot.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a place with many dealers of the brand and model I was looking for. I chose the five closet in radius, and started at one. Told him, "I want your bottom dollar on this truck".
After I went to the 5th dealer, (they all went lower), I went back to the first with the last offer. Then I went around again. THEN, I did it again. I got to the third dealer the third time when I was told they couldn't go lower. I figured I was getting close to their breaking point.

Then, I took my last, lowest quote into AAA and asked them to take a couple of days to find a better deal on this truck. They called back the next day, and said they could have the truck at their office the NEXT day (which is 6 blocks from my home). They beat the last offer by $1500, and brought it across town to me.

If I had walked in and paid what they wanted at the first place, it would have been $16,999+ all the other BS for that brand new '02 Ranger.
My TOTAL loan ended up being $12,459.
Yeah, it took a couple weeks. But I think it was worth it.

It doesn't have to be BS if you don't let it. And I don't feel guilty for getting it down to that price. They make enough from other people who don't take the time to be savvy that a few like me won't hurt them. And, they still made SOMEthing.

Brad1

[bob p]

Required Reading: Remar Sutton's Don't Get Taken Every Time

Its a paperback expose' by a car salesman who tells all of the tricks and cheats that car dealers will use you try to screw you. I first read this book about 15 years ago, and it was a lifesaver. While car shopping I recognized every trick that they tried to pull, and I used their own tactics to screw them.

The good news is that there's a new 2007 edition. If you're shopping for a car, the book is money well spent.

[casey73]

No argument that if you are willing to put time and effort in, you can save some serious money. My argument is, it is sad that it has to be this way. I happen to like Honda cars. I've owned 4 now. They have established reliability, are reasonably priced and not bad looking. They sell themselves. But we still have to be subjected to the established process of purchasing them. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for auto dealerships.

I was listening to a financial talk show and they were placing the blame for Ford's demise primarily on Ford's refusal to change with the times when it comes to how they conduct business. I would like to think that all the changes in how we purchase goods that have come about in the last decade will eventually trickle down to the world of auto sales. Maybe in the future the dreaded car salesman will eventually become a thing of the past. One can only hope.

[Satamax]

Hi guys!

You know you have a very big country with borders afar! Over here, i have managed to buy a second hand land cruiser half price just on the other side of the border! A friend of mine buys his cars brand new in spain ans saves about 4000 euros on every car, 2 to four times in a year, and you start raising money resseling in france. Th eprobles with us, that's not even possible if i've understood correctly, if the car isn't 25 years of age, it's quite complicated. Thought, you seem to have good deals in the US, i've bought lately a compressed air nailer, factory refurbished from bostitch, (well looking at it, you could say brand new waranty return) for 160 euros shipped to here (149 dols plus 60 shipping), and i've seen the same over here in a shop for 715 euros + taxes! about 20% taxes! That's about 1142 dols! The same sells brand new in the us at 209 dols! Talk about crazy! Same goes about a DMT sharpening stone 134 sterling pound in UK (264 dols!), 77 dols in the US! Talk about greed!

[bob p]

when i visited Europe, the price of the VAT ruined my desire to shop. it must drive you crazy, but then taxes are the prices that you have to pay for the social programs that help so many people.

[Satamax]

Do you know who does the taxes help? State employees, paid 13 months per year in france, and they get 3 months hollidays a year! What a fucking joke! You go to the post office and to send a simple letter, to a foreign country sometimes it takes half an hour, and not in waiting time. And they're not the worse! Few years back we had a tax for public television or state television, which you have to pay if you possess a television. the people used to recover that tax from non paying citizens, used to cost more than the tax was raising! Can you imagine? Plus there's the great "civil servants" or "state employees" don't know which one you use. I mean by that all the big ones running the country; in France, there's a school to train them specialy, right or left thgey all come from the same school. And that's the plague of france, they earn huge ammounts of money, they praticaly rule the country, by delivering or hiding informations to their ministers and so on! Plus all the big companies, air, space, automobile, science, electronics etc. Are ruled by them. Basicaly, if they do bad they get a golden parachute and are sent back to the administration or else! Even tho they're state employees, they've been "delegated" to a private company for some time, but after that, when they get fired, they find their old job in the administration! Still paid thousands of euros, and did they get replaced in the meantime when they were away? Nah, there's basicaly too many of them, and they're worthless. From top to botom the administration is flawed in france, and it doesn't help the small people. They get their lifetime jobs (they can't be fired) and cost money to the society by their inproductivity. Well i stop here cos i'll go mad otherwise. Well one last thing, Sakozy's governement wants to raise that VAT to 25%. What a joke, most of france voted for him thinking he could change things. Yeah sure, who gets bugered again, small people as usual! Well, i shouldn't complain, our poor people are somewhat better off than your poor people. I mean, we have a minimum wage which is kind of decent, even thought we might have to pay 67% of it back to the governement!

Bye everybody!