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Thread: DDX3216 repair

  1. #1
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    DDX3216 repair

    Hi

    My name is Marc and I am from Holland/the Netherlands and this is my first post after finding this awesome forum.
    In the beginning of this year I picked up my old electronics hobby again and started buying stuff I could repair in order to sell it (as working) again (with a slight profit).

    I have bought a non-working Behringer DDX3216 digital mixer and trying to get it to work again. I have already found several interesting threads here.

    The one I got starts up with the full screen logo and then stops. The guy I bought it from said he replaced one of the Flash ROM ICs (IC15) with one from a working unit and that fixed the problem. In my ignorance I bought a new chip but after further examining the machine (having a schematic does help greatly) I concluded I may just have to rewrite the firmware. I have tried to connect over MIDI but the firmware load program (I got from the Behringer site) does not pickup the connected DDX3216.

    There is also an RS232 port that can be used and my question is: will that work better (guaranteed)? Any tips on reflashing the firmware on one of these?
    (problem is I don't have a rs232 cable but will get one if I know this has a chance of working ).

    Thanx,
    Marc

  2. #2
    Senior Member paleeman's Avatar
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    Hi Marc.
    If you have a firmware problem, you will not be able to upload it via midi. The mixer needs to be in a fully booted state to be able to receive data for firmware upgrading. You're only option is to use the RS232 and the program provided by Behringer for that purpose. Also, my suggestion is to read the threads on the forum about the DDX 3216, similar issues have been discussed before.

    cheers

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    Figured as much.
    What I read in other threads did not cover the details of how to actually do the firmware update...

    Does the RS232 require accurate timing and handshake?
    I was thinking on buying an USB to RS232 cable but those may be not too fast and not sure if the complete RS232 protocol (handshake) will be implemented.
    I still have one old PC with a RS232 on-board that will probably be a bit more accurate...

    What would be best?

  4. #4
    Senior Member paleeman's Avatar
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    It would definitely be easier with a computer that has RS232. (I use USB to RS232 on a laptop and have no speed issues) And you'll need the V1.11 update tool to be installed. It will ping the DDX on the RS port and begin to upload the SW. But before this, I'd explore a few options. Like, replacing the 32.768MHz crystal. It is a common fault with these units. And the symptoms are like the ones you described.

    Just in case, DDX3216FileExchange11f.zip DDX3216 Presets.zip
    Last edited by paleeman; 04-01-2015 at 07:48 PM.

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    Thanx,

    I have managed to get an RS232 cable - should be in the mail today or tomorrow.
    I will try rewriting the firmware first seems the simplest option. I already had a poke with my scope on all the clocks and reset lines which all seemed ok - supply voltages also although the plus 5 and 12 were a little low but not outside spec I think.

    Keep you posted.

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    Odd enough on one WinXP machine, the file exchange program did not start (process was started but no UI). Luckily I had another old WinXP machine with an RS232 interface that did work. But the program cannot find the DDX3216. Checked the RS232 cable with my meter and all pins had continuity.

    So I think I'll have a look at that crystal again...

    Any other know problems that have the symptom I am seeing (startup logo on the display but dead otherwise)...?

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    The power supply seems to make some noise (coil whine)...?

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    PSU needs a recap ,and replace the crystal, you are wasting your time with a firmware update as its not booting properly.
    As said read the other threads .
    The RS232 needs a fully working boot os to detect the DDX

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    Yes, I opened the PSU and I saw one cap slightly bulging, but the rest looked fine. I ordered an ESR meter to be able to determine what caps are bad. I know you guys say that you should replace them all, but I like to know
    The voltages from the PSU were all there and no alarming ripples on the 5 and 3.3 rails either...

    Because the guy I got the mixer from told me IC15 was bad (he replaced it with one from a working unit and that fixed the problem - according to him) I fear I may not ever get a stable running OS. Are the images available to program the chips on an external programmer?

    I see no JTAG header either...?

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    You need an external eeprom blower to program the bin files ,they are unavailable..... I have them somewhere !

    IC19 Is the OS Epprom the others are for the presets,position stores,config,effects etc etc.

    As stated Replace the watch crystal FIRST !! this is one of the main cause of stopping at boot !!!

    Just repeatedly replacing empty roms will get you nowhere
    Last edited by S2udio; 04-04-2015 at 01:44 PM.

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    Yeah, I know you guys want me to replace that crystal - I am just not very good at blindly following orders over the internet
    I like to understand why - and because mine is working...?

  12. #12
    Senior Member paleeman's Avatar
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    When a solution to a known issue is suggested, it is not an order, it is common sense. But on the other hand, if you want to learn on your own expense, it is fine by me.

    The booting is in 3 steps. In phase one the CPU loads the necessary data to awake the primary system. For this the CPU does not need the crystal (SYS CLOCK), it has its own,
    that is why you can see a splash screen. It is generated by the CPU. In phase two the OS is loaded to bring the device to the state where it can communicate with the peripherals, and for this you need the watch crystal, to generate the system clock, and finally the presets are loaded. Now, just now, the mixer is fully functional. Yours is most likely stuck at phase one.

    Good luck. (and I say this as friendly as possible)
    Last edited by paleeman; 04-04-2015 at 09:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    I will agree on the 'splash screen' being independent.

    I have seen it on Korgs too.
    Last edited by Jazz P Bass; 04-04-2015 at 10:26 PM.
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    Ah thanx very much.

    I do not mind spending a little more time in order to understand what is going on. I do this as a hobby and have no deadline or something.
    I also am suspicious of advice on the internet, because too many are like recap all and put in a new this and that and that will fix it. It might (and then again might not) but I want to know what is the problem exactly.

    Anyhow, I ordered the crystal, should be in at the beginning of next week. Meanwhile I will look into the caps of the PSU. I think someone already repaired it once, all power transistors have been resoldered (and the excess flux not removed).

    About the splash screen: I have a broken tc-electronic Nova System that displays its splash screen - even now I have removed the processor! There is a little PIC on the display board that (probably) takes care of that. So I learned not to derive any conclusions on the state of the main CPU based on the appearance of a splash screen. In this case, the main CPU does drive the LCD so I see how your description is correct.
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    I looked into recapping the PSU.
    I can get 1500u instead of the 1000u caps that are used. Would that be a problem?
    (I would think not but I'm no expert on switching power supplies)

    Also I saw 50v caps for the 48v rails. Isn't that cutting it a little close? Would it not be better to up that a bit?

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    Seems I have lost my audience

    Anyway, I have replaced the 32.768kHz crystal and checked the frequency (of the new crystal) on the scope and that looks good.
    However, the mixer doesn't start up yet.

    I have checked the activity on the flash memory chips (IC15 pin 1-14) on the CPU01 board and can see activity. However I see somewhat regular patterns so the program may be looping or restarting - not sure.

    Not sure how to proceed, will read other threads some more...

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    For the record...

    I have disconnected all ribbon cables from the CPU01 board and only connected the LCD and power cables.
    I removed the +5v connector pin and put my multi meter in series on Amperes and measured 157 mA. To me, this seems a plausible value.
    The schematic I've got contains a page that lists current for each power connector pin and has 190mA written for the +5V for this connector.

    To me this does not look like a shorted decoupling cap on the rail.

    I may also do the 3.3V rail...

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    Does anybody have the binary (hex) dump for the flash chips (IC15-19)??

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    Yup will see if i can upload them....Watch this space

    Attached

    PM me for the password

    Taken from a working DDX ,OS 1.12, May have 2 adats in it , so may report IO errors on first boot ,or may not ?.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by S2udio; 04-09-2015 at 06:14 PM.

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    Awesome! thanx!

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    Hi Guys! I am really running out of luck with my Behringer DDX3216 LCD. Does anybody have suggestions for a replacement unit? I purchased a similar type LCD from Crystal Fontz America but it has 8 data I/O's and the AMD sc300-33kc has 4. Unfortunately I cant make it work and no reply from Behringer because they already stopped production of these units. Any ideas? Very much appreciated for any suggestions. Thanks!

  22. #22
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    You have me confused.

    The AMD is a microcontroller, not an LCD.

    As far as I can see, the data pins for the LCD are the same.
    D0-D15.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    My apologies for the confusion. The AMD (ELANS SC300-33KC) is the one driving the system but provides the following, LCDD0 to LCDD3, FRM, M, CP1, and CP2. The one I got has D0 to D7 and some more pins which confuses me. It has 4 data pins more. I am not really an expert on this, sorry!

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    Is it normal around here to hijack threads??

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    Hi obiwanjacobi! Sorry If I unintentionally went in to this thread. The truth is, I am not used to this conversation and I am not very knowledegable in the thread business. My apologies to you and the rest. I thought I can just shout for help! Thanks!

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    No Problem. Typically it is more useful to start your own thread for each problem. In there you can refer to other threads that you have read or discuss a similar problem. If the problem is very close to what an existing thread discusses, it is usually ok to pitch in.

    No hard feelings
    Marc

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    Very much appreciated! Only, since it was my second time to join in, I really don.t know where to start. I saw your problems re DDx and I thought since it is related, I went in. Well I don't take anything against anyone anyway. And it's my mistake so I am very sorry about it. But maybe I can also gain friends later on. Many thanks and pardon me guys! And of course no hard feelings!

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    Right, So my programmer arrived and I read all memory chips (IC15-19) and saved their contents on my PC and programmed IC15-18 with the binary images i got from @S2udio - IC19 was exactly the same the others weren't.

    Reinserted the chips and when I boot, instead of the logo I now get the Invalid Program error message.

    Which raises the question:

    Did I read in the bin files correctly?

    I 'think' my programmer software simply read in the file as separate bytes, but it also has several other options (all having to do with little/big indian of words and longs etc)...?

    I will try to reflash the firmware but hold no high hopes for that procedure...

    Any suggestions are welcome.

    BTW: I finished recapping the PSU and it does not make noise anymore and seems to work fine.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member paleeman's Avatar
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    Hi obiwanjacobi.
    If I may ask, how did you obtain the contents for the ICs 15 - 18 (AT29C040) ? Even if you have a working unit, you cannot read the content, because they're SW protected. And as usual, Behringer was not willing to provide them when asked to.
    Last edited by paleeman; 05-03-2015 at 05:03 PM.

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    See post #19.

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    Senior Member paleeman's Avatar
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    Shame on me for not reading thoroughly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by obiwanjacobi View Post
    Right, So my programmer arrived and I read all memory chips (IC15-19) and saved their contents on my PC and programmed IC15-18 with the binary images i got from @S2udio - IC19 was exactly the same the others weren't.

    Reinserted the chips and when I boot, instead of the logo I now get the Invalid Program error message.

    Which raises the question:

    Did I read in the bin files correctly?

    I 'think' my programmer software simply read in the file as separate bytes, but it also has several other options (all having to do with little/big indian of words and longs etc)...?

    I will try to reflash the firmware but hold no high hopes for that procedure...

    Any suggestions are welcome.

    BTW: I finished recapping the PSU and it does not make noise anymore and seems to work fine.
    My Quote....

    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post

    Taken from a working DDX ,OS 1.12, May have 2 adats in it , so may report IO errors on first boot ,or may not ?.
    I hope you saved the original config before writing over the data, just for good practice !
    You need to also flash IC19 ....sounds like its got older firmware.
    And then give it a factory reset.
    With all ribbons disconnected from the CPU board (display connected) the display should then Display DDX3216 , followed by bars and then blank.
    If you get that far ,then you are winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by paleeman View Post
    Even if you have a working unit, you cannot read the content, because they're SW protected. And as usual, Behringer was not willing to provide them when asked to.
    They are not protected......they have to be read/write
    The only chips that are protected ,are the 16f PIC 's ,one on the CPU board (SMPTE) and another on the optional ADAT cards

    If it still refuses to boot.....the CPU is more than likely Faulty ,replace it.
    Last edited by S2udio; 05-04-2015 at 10:30 AM.

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    I did save the original images. IC19 was exactly the same as the image you provided so I didn't bother.

    My PC was doing a large backup operation so I have not tried anything else yet, but I will try your suggestions later.

    I do not consider the Invalid Program message an IO error... Should I?
    With the original flash content, the CPU came as far as displaying the splash screen on the LCD. I would not think that the CPU is at fault - unless something very specific has broken in there...

    Anyway, will try again tonight and will report back.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by obiwanjacobi View Post
    I did save the original images. IC19 was exactly the same as the image you provided so I didn't bother.
    just to verify , That means you have ver 1.12 installed, Yes ?, I would Flash it anyway. could be a corrupt bit/flag

    As stated in my previous post, with your original firmware this sequence should happen

    "With all ribbons disconnected from the CPU board (display connected) the display should then Display DDX3216 , followed by bars and then blank."

    Have you now got all the ribbons reconnected ? ie DSP-IO/ADAT-and Control Board (fader motors etc), the small one that goes to the MIDI and SPDIF backboard is not nessesary at this point.

    A hard reset is nessesary to clear the IO flags,ie "invalid program error"

    From the manual

    To reset the DDX3216 to its default status and at the same time
    do an automatic fader calibration, keep the following switches
    pressed for about 10 seconds, while switching the unit on:
    CH 1-16 and SETUP
    Last edited by S2udio; 05-04-2015 at 11:52 AM.

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    I do not know what version firmware is installed (just that my programmer verified that your file and my IC19 were the same)...

    With hard reset you mean holding down the two buttons (can't remember their names) when powering on...?

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