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Thread: President Trump

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    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    President Trump

    Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.

    Some are quite enthusiastic
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    some are more amused
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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
    Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.
    What, Tr(i)ump(h) the insult candidate? I'm quite sure everyone else in the world sees him for the self-entitled over privileged ass-clown that he is. Looking forward to the day he doesn't get elected then I can sing along with Elvis: "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused."

    May have been "Marketplace" public radio financial show, someone made the point that if the Donald simply took his $40 mil portion of the company daddy gave him, cashed it in, bought S&P500 shares, he'd be worth minimum $3-4 billion now without having to lift a finger or get others involved in flaky real estate deals etc etc. Could have spent his life knocking a ball around a golf course & sipping champagne on his yacht without a care in the world and without making himself a pest to the rest of us. Feh!

    For the record I'm no fan of Hillary the carpetbagger either. Don't get me started...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
    Is quite a possibility, some here in the USA would be, and are, embarrassed at this prospect.

    Some are quite enthusiastic
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    some are more amused
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    Cripes! That's one creepy bit of Photo-shopping.


    C'mom now, there was
    Regan - film star
    Schwarzenegger - film, er person?
    Then there was W.B. - one man comedy show

    Why not Trump? It would be funnier then all of them. And how much power do they really have in any case. It's pretty hard for one man to make the machine turn a different way, eh?
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    People can tell me "I told you so" when the time comes, but here is my bold prediction.

    Trump is unique. I doubt whether many, if any, Republican voters view him as simply a better version of some other current candidate, just as I doubt whether they view any other candidates as "almost as good as" Trump, and could "live with" that candidate if it came down to it. If they like him, they don't anybody else, and if they like somebody else, they DON'T like him. His current lead is a reflection of the specific constituency who view him as precisely what is needed. But that's a third or less.

    There is a naive assumption, based on other kinds of candidates and races, that it will grow beyond that. But that 30-31% occurs in a field of well over 10 hopefuls, and there is only 100% to divvy up amongst all of them. In time, candidates will drop out, and their constituency will be folded into that of another candidate - not Trump. I don't know who that is, but by the end of it, Trump will still have his steadfast 25-30% (or close to it), someone else will have 40-45%, and the spoils will be divided up amongst maybe 2 or 3 individuals. For any candidates who view Trump as harmful to the Republican brand, the most patriotic thing they can do is drop out and shift their votes to someone else. And I think they know that.
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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    It is early yet.
    Next year, will tell the tale?
    So Far IMO it's still a clown show!
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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    I equate the whole thing to the similar fashion of a school choosing it's mascot. Only thing is this school changes it's mascot every 4-8 years.
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    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    It is half a year until even the primaries start. Remember an election or two ago when the front runner and presumed GOP candidate was Rudy Giuliani coming out of Iowa and NH? It is fun to root for trump, why not. But how can anyone seriously think of this moron as presidential? The president may not be able to control the congress and cannot force legislation, but he has a ton of power. He, after all, controls "the button". Remember George W? He started wars in Iraq and Afergranistan, all by his self. A bellicose asshole like trump wouldn't be reticent to start something. On the world scene, his in-your-face approach to everything won't get him any friends.
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    Lifetime Member km6xz's Avatar
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    Actually Trump is the only republican to state he was not interested in wars, all the others have lists of 3-7 countries they want bombed right away. Hillary is pretty hawkish so more wars there also. Koch brothers don't have much sway with Trump so media is trying hard to take him down which just endears him to a segment of the disaffected class. The big losers in this cycle is clearly going to be big media. The two candidates that are not supported by corporate media are ahead in no small part because they are NOT media darlings; Trump and Sanders.
    Big money from oligarchs and corporations has been effective when spent on TV in the past. Billions go to TV time. That routine has been disrupted in this cycle, and it bodes badly for TV and big dollar foreign and domestic oligarchs who have used the great investment in conventional campaigns to undermine democracy. But people are bypassing media, they are using direct interaction on social media, email and other systems with no corporate control. Trump and Sanders are both doing it without money, they have some but it does not help. How else can a candidate with virtually no mainstream media coverage, in two days before an event in some mid sized town, turn out 20,000 or 30,000 wildly enthusiastic supporters? If I was heavily invested in one of the networks or cable, I would be looking for an exit strategy, and be prepared to short the stock when they start tanking. The good thing is that by people ignoring media, their power over the narrative and issues ends and the impact of Citizens United drops dramatically. It is not by accident or because of not large enough ad budgets where all the mainstream status quo establishment candidates are floundering. Bush and Clinton have over $100,000,000 each in their media budget and they are both dropping in the polls. This is a good thing.
    Trump is a buffoon or course but he is an independent buffoon and that is good enough for millions of people who are sick of business as usual. Sanders is not a buffoon, he is the only one who might be able to help but the electorate is not very good at picking good candidates as demonstrated consistently for 60 years or more. But if wiser decisions are made, Sanders could easily be this century's FDR. Leading in the polls for the first two primaries and no exploitable baggage , despite no coverage at all by MSM, and with only 25% name recognition now it might be a rout. On the other hand, Trump might be a nutcase but he has less nutty policies(those few actually stated) than the rest of the right wing clown car. Seriously, the candidates on that side are losers exactly as Trump says. What has any of them accomplished in their lives, except possibly Carson, but who shows signs of serious mental illness and crazy thinking. Koch inc must be panicking seeing the $900,000,000 they promised to inject to turn the US back to 1880s is having no effect.

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    Go Bernie!
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
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    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    Now let me see if I have this right. Most voters are idiots. They have no idea who to vote for if they even vote at all. Most rely on advise from friends or what they see on TV including comedy shows. That's why the media has such a big influence. And the key to that influence is how much a candidate spends on advertising. Better than 90% of elections are won by the candidate that spends the most money. Some studies put the number as high as 96%. All the while a candidate must be carefull not to say anything that will piss off any voters in a particular group. Then when they get into office, they renege on all the campaign promises they made and do whatever it takes to get campaign donations from the rich people, unions and special interest groups so they can win the next election. Now, the Supreme Court has made it a First Amendment right to bribe a politician with campaign donations. The cycle is complete, perpetual bad government. Remember the auto industry bail out? 9 out of 10 calls to Washington were against it. Ever wonder who made the 1 out of 10 calls that politicians listened to?
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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    What I find amusing is this. Only a few years ago, most of my republican friends were nauseated by the prospect of Trump running for office. Any serious campaign by him would have been considered a joke. They, at that time and as I still do, considered him to be the arrogant ass clown he is. Now that he is the RNC front runner, these same people are propping him up and singing his praises as if he's had a recent brain transplant.
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    The last 2 election cycles, voters have sent candidates to congress who vowed to clean up the Obama mess, however, once they are there, even with a majority, they decide to go along with the status quo! The Senate should have kept Harry Reid's "nuclear option" until things were fixed, but McConnell has no backbone.
    I personally like Cruz, but Trump seems to be saying the right things that make people think he could get a handle on the mess that Obama has created.

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Yes, any man who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times surely knows how to get a handle on things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Trump seems to be saying the right things that make people think he could get a handle on the mess that Obama has created.
    Yes, people need to look back to how great it was before Brock messed everything up.
    If you really believe that, then maybe the Donald is your man.
    Let me tell ya what, how many US presidents have their own "Rushmore" on mars?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    In my ideal world, I'm not too loud - your room is too small!

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    It's not the views that scare me. His presentation will get us all blowed up. Canadia and Mayheeko too. Maybe even Argenrtinia.

    And if we want someone to un-bankrupt the country, The Donald is NOT my first choice.

    That said, I'm not getting into a pissing contest over this one... later y'akls!

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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Yes, any man who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times surely knows how to get a handle on things.
    File, hell that's nothing. Any moron can do that. Come thru with your fortune intact, now that's almost impressive. "Fooled 'em again! What can I get away with next ?????" Got low friends in high places, that's all it proves.

    Bankruptcies were baked into the plans from the beginning. That's how you win, it's legal to cheat. Standard Operating Procedure for big biz, airlines did it in the 80's, banks in the late 00'. That's why you hire teams of smart lawyers, read the rules & finesse them every way you can, including bribing those who write the rules & those who can be bought off to not enforce them. America, what a wonderful country!

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    You do understand I was being cynical?
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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    FWIW, seen from outside, any and all candidates are exactly the same
    Plus there's only 2 parties and Big Money contributes to both so no matter who wins, Big Things stay the same.
    Expect no surprises.
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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    You do understand I was being cynical?
    Yes indeed Duderino! There is some truth to be found by digging into that cynicism. The story behind the joke, as it were. No worries, I'm right there with you.

    To be accurate we must also recognize that Chump's bankruptcies were four of his business projects, no personal bankruptcy, no no no... it could never be allowed to happen that Mighty Mouth would be totally beggared. Just his co-investors.

    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey
    there's only 2 parties and Big Money contributes to both so no matter who wins, Big Things stay the same.Expect no surprises.
    That too Juan. Those expecting big changes after the 'Bammer took office are still sorely disappointed. It seems all the bureaucrats and government employees who continued in their jobs still thought they were working for Bush/Cheney & company, their policies of meanness and inattention for the most part continue unchanged. Plus ca change, plus le meme-chose. (please pardon my lack of cedillas & carats French scholars.)
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    Lifetime Member km6xz's Avatar
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    This early run up is very different than the past 25 years or so. The ones generating the excitement are not spending money on ads and spots. The whole advert industry is in turmoil since big ad campaigns are less effective in driving consumer action than ever before. Because big business is conventional and traditional, they keep spending billions on TV commercials and sponsoring teams that just do not work anymore. A few smaller agencies blew things up in the last 6-7 years by staging cheap guerrilla promotion that cost very little but had tremendous influence on consumers. The big agencies, to save their accounts are creating their own subdivisions only remotely connected to the main agency. The new style that has transformed a number of industries relies on the fact that readers of blogs, forums and social media will believe anything from people posting as if they were real. The user review web sites such as Amazon, Trip Advisor, various camera forums and blogs have shifted the would markets in travel, consumer items, cars, movies etc. Using these tactics of fake reviews or faker reviewers, paid forum posts, bot generated responses monitoring hundreds of thousands of blogs and reader comment sites. This is the reason the major hotel chains are getting clobbered by mini-hotels or small operators in every market, same with restaurants for tourists, the highest rated are never the ones locals who know them all, would have even had on the list. Each fake review for a small hotel in a large markets might be worth $25k-100k in additional sales. Consumers believe user review sites orders of magnitude more than traditional ads or even their travel agent. Music equipment is getting the same treatment.
    This means ads still cost millions to create and 10s of millions to run on national networks, but they have little impact now. Ad buys are done by agencies because they are expensive and they get a 15% commission on those buys even if they do not work, and they know they do not work.
    Bernie and The Donald are not spending money, they do not need to this cycle as long as the keep the professional "expert" campaign staffs away from the budgets. Instead of pay-for-posts that swamp opinion pages of newspapers, forums and review sites(going pro rate for posting is $10/post), Bernie has energized an army of dedicated fans who are having the same impact but for free. Clinton is relying on corporate ad agencies and consultants so will get much less impact from her hundreds of millions in wall street donations.
    So this might be the first internet and social media driven election where prime candidates are not running conventional ads and in the case of Bernie, not even mentioned by major networks. The major networks trying to undermine him will hurt them permanently. Viewers are hip to what they are doing and will increasingly ignore the network content and "news". Just think of how you heard of his legions of followers, it was not on mainstream TV. of the cable networks, CNN and MSNBC apparently are forbidden from mentioning his name.

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    Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
    The headlines yesterday, Obamacare has to double enrollment next year, or it completely crashes!
    We need to shut this crap down before we are in the position of Greece!

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    I guess if you're Cruz, that 94 million "not participating in the workforce" sounds a lot worse than the actual 9 million unemployed, doesn't it?
    Especially when non-discerning readers will just repeat it as "out of work". You know it includes all the retired, disabled, and students, right?
    Due to the boomers, I doubt there have ever been as large a portion of the population retired, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    In my ideal world, I'm not too loud - your room is too small!

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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
    Really have to question 94 million. Does that include infants and children, the aged, infirm, prisoners, retired folks enjoying their golden years, self employed, discouraged workers who don't bother applying for benefits, illegal aliens plus their kids uncles aunts grannies & grampas, welfare queens & kings, etc? They're all "unemployed" plus a few more sectors I haven't thought of. Geeze 94 million looks like a LOW number when you add 'em all up.

    I keep mentioning Saint Dubya's statements about "we have to let these people in to do the jobs Americans won't do." At that time an average of 70,000 illegal immigrants were stopped at or near the border, given appearance tickets, none of them showed up for their hearings of course, they just continued on to Everywhere USA including Your Town and My Town. And that's just 70,000 that got caught, 840,000 per year, how many didn't get caught? All waved in with a wink from The Chief Executive and Commander in Chief.

    Some reading material you may enjoy in links below. These are taken to be "Conservative" publications & websites. Lots of interesting comments plus a terrific letter to the President. Even when this press conference took place in 2004 the meaning of his statements supports the notion that Big Business will continue to be ever more profitable, and continue to make major donations to their political friends and enablers, when they have a permanent underclass of cheap labor they can count on to do the jobs that Americans won't do plus an awful lot of jobs that Americans WILL DO. No small surprise that things continue much the same as before, your current President is plenty Conservative, he just belongs to the wrong party, has the wrong color skin, and isn't way off on the far end of the "right" spectrum as good proper Americans should be. Maybe he wasn't born in the right country either but too bad, it's way too late to do anything about that. Das ist mir doch alles Wurst: they grind out the same old sausage, chorizo mostly. Learn to like it. In our lifetime it would be a miracle if anything changed, aka S.O.S. every day no matter who's "in charge."

    Enjoy reading, this is for EVERYBODY ! ! ! ! !

    Bush Immigration Comments in Press Conference - Articles - THE AMERICAN RESISTANCE FOUNDATION

    Same, but with hundreds of comments following:

    Bush Immigration Comments in Press Conference and Full Transcript.

    A to-the-point letter to the President:

    Jobs Americans Won`t Do? An Open Letter To President George W. Bush | VDARE - premier news outlet for patriotic immigration reform

    Yet more, our cup runneth over!

    http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...cle_1372.shtml

    http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...cle_1370.shtml
    Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 09-15-2015 at 07:45 PM.

  24. #24
    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    "jobs American's won't do"

    ie at that rate of pay.

    And jobs are a completely marginal part of the economy; capital is striving to be human free and to a great extent, it already is.
    You'd have to be mentally ill to invest in anything but the imaginary economy of the US. The growing "non-investment class" is left to fight the more desperate people of the world over the craps that remain; less and less each year.

    Ross Perot was wrong the "giant sucking sound" wasn't old fashioned jobs going across boarders, it was all $ flowing to the "fantasy economy". People are increasingly unneeded and irrelevant. "Increased efficiency" means you can efficiently remove 99% of the population from the capital equation, and then strive to remove the next 0.9% etc. etc.

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Prior to the community organizer, we have never had 94 million people out of work! So the answer is to disregard our southern border, and let in the rest of Mexico's population? (70% of whom receive welfare assistance, contrary to federal law).
    The headlines yesterday, Obamacare has to double enrollment next year, or it completely crashes!
    We need to shut this crap down before we are in the position of Greece!
    Dear Bill, the missing jobs were not sucked by cheap labor immigrants within the borders (otherwise there would still be HUGE car/TV/steel/plastics/clothing/motorcycles/fridges/washers/you-name-it Factories, just manned by illegal immigrants) but by cheapest, slave conditions workers from the other side of the World.

    No, they are not (nor will ever be) inside USA borders, so no Social Security/Health/Education users, but that's not the point, which is that their *Products* , the result of their workforce get freely inside, no Tariff or quotas to stop them, so it's an illusion today to start any kind of manufacturing Company and dream of making it big.

    Yes, there are probably a few small niches (say, Mesa Boogie) who can fight ... a waterdrop in the Ocean.

    As of comparing with Greece?

    Think again: the situationn is *far worse* , the difference is that Greece is a small weak Country and nobody forgives it a cent, while USA is the 500 pound Gorilla you simply cannot push around, with huge political, economic and military power , most of it remains of its glory days, from WW2 until the 70's .

    But guess what, it's still undisputed king only on the Military side, and that at a great expense (and even so can't "win" in Irak or Afghanistan, 2 really backward Countries) ; politically: smaller challengers are appearing, and in economics, well, the Chinese gorilla is already weighing 250 pounds ... and growing.
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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
    "jobs American's won't do"

    ie at that rate of pay.
    Couple bucks an hour, then.

    Now we have border-jumpin' day laborers assembled 6-7 AM at Home Despot & Load's, don't bother offering them $5 or even $10, they start at $15/hour take it or leave it.

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    Table A-1. Employment status of the civilian population by sex and age
    We don't have the large manufacturing anymore, that relies on semi, or unskilled labor, that unions used to exploit. But we also don't have the "Bracero" program where my grandpa. and uncle could get farm help back in the 60's. There was an article yesterday on local radio, that the chile growers were moving to different crops, as labor was hard to find. What jobs, (if any) are the illegals getting? I understand MS-13 is doing a lot of recruiting here in the States!

  28. #28
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    What jobs, (if any) are the illegals getting?
    Around here, construction/demolition, brush clearing, yard work for the Home Despot/Load's day workers. One of my customers doesn't want to climb ladders, so hehired a guy for $100 to scoop leaves & debris out of his roof gutters, yank weeds & spruce up the yard for a 6-7 hour day. Says he did a good job and was glad to earn the c-note. Local teenagers are mostly too busy staring at their plastic pocket pals to do much actual work BUT I'll bet there's a couple that would have been glad to put aside their smarty-pants phones a couple hours for the same deal. Where do you find them...

    In another town a woman did hire a couple of local teens and they set to work shoveling snow and ice a couple years ago. Didn't get too far before a neighbor saw them, dialed in a complaint, inspector came around, forced them to stop because it's a violation of child labor laws, wrote her a summons. They weren't working cheap either, I think it was $50 for maybe 2 hours work for the two teens. And the snow didn't get shoveled. Just try to do things right, see what happens. Would that neighbor have called if Pablo and Pedro were shoveling the snow? I bet not.

    - - - - - - - - - - -

    BLS labor table: simply subtract civilian labor force from civilian non-institutional population (what's the definition of non-institutional? Not in school, not in armed forces, not in prison, not in mental hospitals, not in nursing homes, not in Congress?). The result "Not in labor force" Aug '15 94 million, OK I see where they get that. Out of that 94 million only 6 million want to find jobs. So who are the remaining 88 million "slackers" exactly? Wives and mothers who do PLENTY of work at home caring for their families but not counted as part of labor because they don't get paychecks? Sounds like a short-sighted politician's rhetoric to refer to them as unemployed slackers; if the wives understand that they are being insulted, who are they gonna vote for? Some dipsy doodle that counts their effort as nought? 88 million is quarter of the country more or less. Does this count authentic US citizens or everybody that's here legal or not? And what was the "participation rate" in years past. Inquiring minds want to know. Food for thought, thanks for posting that Bill!
    Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 09-15-2015 at 10:33 PM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Currently we have 319 million population. I might believe 29% of us are not employed, but I doubt they are all unable to find jobs.
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    Leo, the numbers are free!
    A-1. Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years and over, prior years to date
    I think the "slackers" may be comprised of many individuals who no longer qualify for any gov't handouts, so they write them off to give the illusion that unemployment is down.
    Juan, unfortunately, we are no longer respected as a military power, Obama has seen to that. I heard someone commenting a few days ago that the US was able to keep the bad guys in check, so the Europeans could buy votes with social programs, instead of military spending. We used to! Now I wouldn't expect help from anyone if we don't pay our bills.
    As a kid that grew up tough, I know you better be ready to back up your bluff, Even if you lose the fight, the other guy is hurt enough that he won't try to pick on you anymore. As a country we don't even bother to swat the easy flies, and capitulate to dictators at any cost.

  31. #31
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Interesting that you should use that graph to make your point. Looking at it, I notice that when Obama took office in 2009 the unemployed percent of the labor force was 9.3%. It has continued to decrease to it's current 5.1%, which would indicate that there were a larger percentage of "slackers" under the previous republican administration.
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  32. #32
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    The problem is not only unemployment *numbers* but remaining employment *quality* .

    For the average Joe, the best quality work is in Industry, which to boot carries good salaries, benefits, stability, etc.

    And such a worker soon becomes skilled in what he does, even if a very narrow field, (say he's very fast and efficient in fixing the window rising mechanism inside a car door or whatever) and can command a somewhat highner salary for that.

    I am an Industrial Engineer , not an EE , and let me tell you I have no problem whatsoever in paying a guy 20/30/40 U$ an hour, whatever, ... if at the end of the day he puts out a ton of parts he's making or properly finishes a lot of assembly work.

    My parameter is not $-per-hour but cents-per-part or to be more precise, finished, ready to sell parts total cost.

    Surprise!!!! : in a cost sheet in any modern production system labor cost is but a small part

    Those Chinese have not sucked jobs out of USA because they work for a rice spoonful 18 hours a day (not anymore at least) , but because their Government stood behind them 200% helping and financing high Tech equipment, plus underrating their own coin so anything made there is cheap to foreigners plus making political/economic deals with everybody (now they are conquering the World with Railroads, will detail that later) .

    Plus USA let border doors wide open (no, I'm not talking across the Rio Grande) because *a few* (think Wal Mart and a Million other *shops*) are doing fine, and investors are making big "paper" gains investing in Asia (who do you think provided the real U$ to finance them? Not Tokyo or Seoul or Beijing governments)

    So USA lost this:






    (by the way, you call any of them "unskilled" or "semiskilled" or "union slave" and they will gladly crack your skull open with a 24"wrench)

    but don't worry, now Detroit became






    don't worry, cars are still needed, made and sold, but now by the Japanese:
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  33. #33
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Juan,

    I couldn't agree more. So let's elect a president who does this.

    ya6ep0w.jpg

    or this

    abc_donald_trump_made_in_china_products_dm_110428_wmain_4x3_608.jpg
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  34. #34
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Leo, the numbers are free!
    A-1. Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years and over, prior years to date
    I think the "slackers" may be comprised of many individuals who no longer qualify for any gov't handouts, so they write them off to give the illusion that unemployment is down.
    Juan, unfortunately, we are no longer respected as a military power, Obama has seen to that. I heard someone commenting a few days ago that the US was able to keep the bad guys in check, so the Europeans could buy votes with social programs, instead of military spending. We used to! Now I wouldn't expect help from anyone if we don't pay our bills.
    As a kid that grew up tough, I know you better be ready to back up your bluff, Even if you lose the fight, the other guy is hurt enough that he won't try to pick on you anymore. As a country we don't even bother to swat the easy flies, and capitulate to dictators at any cost.
    Thanks Bill once again. Yes the numbers are free, public info, ya gotta know what buttons to push to get to them. I see some interesting stats & trends. Lets see, a 49.7% increase in civilian non-institutionalized population from 1980 to Aug 2015. And a 54.6% rise in "not in labor force" 1980 up to present. Sure I'd like to see more legitimate citizens gainfully employed, and a quick blink would have it that we now have 10% more slackers per unit of population. One thing the chart doesn't seem to take into account is early retirement among baby boomers. Maybe some of those awful slackers took company buyouts & now collect pensions, do the actuaries who compile these stats count those "working age" therefore "should be working" people in the CNIP? Around here IBM and other big outfits offer retirement buyouts to late 50's workers like candy. I suspect it's a trend all around. If you put in 25 years at Amalgamated Tunafish and they offered you a cool quarter-mil staggered in 50K/year payouts so you didn't have to suffer a tax hit, then collect a smidge less than the 30 year pension you expected, tell me you wouldn't take it. 5 more years to live your own life, hit the golf course, go sailing, cruise the world, sit around watch TV, whatever. That may not explain the 10% runup in apparent slackers but it's sure some of 'em. We also don't know if the actuaries are counting in undocumented workers who are without a doubt part of our population whether we like it or not.

    Back to the last chart, Employment Status by Sex & Age. August 2015 figures have 32,185,000 men over 20 not in labor force, 56,253,000 women over 20 same, and 11,012,000 youngsters 16 to 19, it adds up as it should to the 94 million non-participants mentioned. So how many of those women are housewives? No paycheck but again it IS work, I'm sure your wife has reminded you on occasion. Now it's trendy to be a house husband, if wifey's working and making good loot, might not be acceptable to some but so what, bet there's a couple million of them. And the 11 million, lots of unemployed youth, when was that not the case. Oh yes when we had the draft and sent half of 'em off to make men of them. Or casualties... Now it sounds like I'm making excuses for bazillions of slackers but we just don't really have a handle on what most of those 88 million non-job-seekers are up to, it sure would be interesting to know what a quarter of the population is up to. It's a mystery, if anybody has an answer please let us know.

    One more look at the chart you just brought up, stats from 1980 to present, the percentage of population employed varies from 57.8% to 64.4%, currently reported as 59.4%, a little disappointing but not way off in either direction. Interesting to see the top figure in 2000. Companies must have been hiring hand over fist in anticipation of doing land-office business under the up & coming Dubya administration.

    Also noted, the CNIP as % of population topped out at 67.1% flat from 1997 to 2001. Two out of three people available to work, potentially, plus a snip more. 62.9% at minimum, that's the figure right now. Slackers or early retirees, or people pushed out of full time jobs, replaced with younger cheaper maybe undocumented or unreported part time workers, what? We dunno... That last one happened to me 10 years ago, needless to say it didn't feel very good but I did have the small satisfaction of watching my ex employers flounder then expel their "trusted" long term management half a year later. So I got to work wrenching amps for a sort of living & here I am. In good company too, yez all good people.

    As for military toughness and stomping all the bad guys, USA has had a miserable record from 1946 onward. I s'pose Saint Ronald gets the prize for a successful campaign in Granada to stop Cuban expansion in the Caribbean. And St. Ron also convinced USSR's Gorbachev to wind down their nuclear program, promising that the USA would spend trillions to send nuclear-bomb powered particle beam weapons into space to shoot their ICBM's as they arced into space. A dicey program at best & thank goodness still an unaccomplished figment of science fiction but the bluff worked. Not long after the Soviet Union crumbled but that doesn't mean the bear is incapable of a fight.

    Ex CIA chief George H W Bush ran a real thriller-diller in Panama, to put shackles on former CIA "good boy" Manuel Noriega who wasn't sharing enough of his drug shipping profits with them. Ol' Pineapple face served 18 years in Club Fed, then a year or so in France and now presumably jailed in Panama. But the flow of blow continues unabated, doesn't it.

    So what should be done? Do we pick a nuclear blowout with Putin over Ukraine? Pave Iran with plutonium killing millions of innocent citizens in a horrible way while the mullahs hide deep in their bunkers. Daesh/ISIS doesn't have a headquarters, too bad because they really are a gang of king size stinkers that deserve to be wiped out. All the highly trained, well-paid generals & admirals can't figure out what to do, you think the Prez has any better idea? At least the one we have now isn't inclined to "reach out and hurt somebody" the way Iraq and Afghan wars were started up in response to 9/11. Saddam was inexcusable and needed to go, but without a strong man government Iraq is helpless. Nobody in USA military/politic understood the long running Sunni/Shi'ite rift before we went in, including the first time early 90's. Whatever we do they'll keep battling each other endlessly. President Nixon got it right in "Six Crises": "There is no point in trying to bring democracy to the Middle East." They don't understand it, they never had a Magna Carta moment. Besides, there's so many tempting trouble spots to go and kick ass, and not prevail, and run up US debt to new astronomical amounts, because war is good for business isn't it? We can't win a one of 'em but we can sure make Dickwood Cheney's friends so rich they could live a thousand lifetimes and still not run out of money. Because that's the glorious thing to do! Note "boots on the ground" aren't sons of the rich... gotta keep those legs attached because a lifetime of golf and easy living beckon. Somehow many good folks seem to have taken on worship of money and those who have lots of it, and we'll impoverish ourselves to make sure they get more more more of it. Wherever the USA tries to flex what's left of its might, there's people who will retaliate and the game's a lot different than it was 70 years ago. The world IS a lot smaller, the bad guys really can get to us, Homeland Security puts on a half-assed show of "security theatre" from the moment they were founded, the alphabet soup agencies who are supposed to protect us are locked in their own internecine battles over many decades, they'll spend more time and brain power trying to prove who's best, CIA or FBI, rather than do the real job they're supposed to do. The game goes on and on no matter who is President so don't get your hopes up. For real, what would a President Trump do, offer to build casinos and McMansions for the enemies of the USA? Or shake his pretty pink little fists & start up another expensive endless war or three, keep the game going to keep the game going, to quote Senator Admiral John McCain. War without end, amen, amen.
    Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 09-16-2015 at 04:57 AM.
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  35. #35
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Funny thing is that Japanese Management can succeed even outside Japan, using local workforce :

    Toyota factory in Derby, UK:


    although they somewhat remind Samurai Warriors by the helmet style, skin and slanted eyes, these workers are actually Mexicans in a Honda plant.
    Don't worry about them crossing the border and stealing (now dwindling) USA`jobs, worry about their *cars* getting in with no tariff and sterilizing any USA industrial effort:


    and it's not that Asians don't strike or have unions, here's a very militarized "worker's resistance" group which occupied Korea's Ssangyong car factory, so far for 10 weeks ... yet Korean cars still are cheaper than American ones, and freely get in:


    now how do Germans, a first world Country by any definition, with excellent schools, health, worker protection, pensions, good salaries, manage to compete?
    They keep well ahead of the pack in Technology, including highly automated and efficient Factories:






    I am certain that USA has tons of bright people inside ... but also guess that most are attracted into the Finance World, very few into Industry.
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