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Thread: Three pickup selector with two DPDT switches (lousy schematics inside)

  1. #1
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    Three pickup selector with two DPDT switches (lousy schematics inside)

    Hi everyone,

    I am getting started on the wiring for my next project guitar and a bit of help would be much appreciated...
    I never liked three- and five-way selectors, and I enjoy the slightly quirky Fender Mustang two-switch selector, hence my trying to make something a bit similar with two DPDT on/on/on switches...

    The guitar I am making will have three single-coil pickups. The idea is to be able to select them individually or in any combination of the three, with no position that would cut the signal off completely (and potentially make for embarrassing moments on stage, which tended to happen quite a bit with my Mustang!)

    Now, I'm not very good at electronics...Here's my attempt at something that would work as described above:

    wiring-1.png
    wiring-2.png

    The main bit I'm really unsure is when the switch on the left is up (connection the two bottom pairs of slugs). I would like it to bypass the output of the switch on the right, making it possible to have the mid pickup sounding on its own. Does this seem to be the way to do it?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I don't know about the requirement of no signal being completely shut off.
    Looks like that defeats the point of 3 on off switches.

    What's wrong with this?
    http://www.1728.org/potenta.png
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    rjb
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    I understand your qualm with Mustang stock wiring; it's all too easy to nudge both slide switches to the middle "kill switch" position.
    Plus, you've got 9 possible switch combinations for 4 sounds (neck, bridge, neck & bridge in phase, neck & bridge out of phase) plus OFF.
    If nothing else, it's just wasteful.
    That's why, next time I dig out my Mustang, I'm going to rewire it like this
    https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...fender-mustang

    Regarding your 3-pickup switching scheme, my advice is "keep it simple".
    Even if your switching worked as intended (it doesn't; the "bypass" shunts all 3 pickups to ground at the volume pot), it would be a confusing mapping of 3 pickups to 2 switches, likely to cause more embarrassing moments on stage.
    If you go with slide or toggle switches, I don't think you'll find a simpler arrangement than the 3 SPST scheme posted by big_teee.
    It would still be possible to shut all pickups off - but less likely, since it would be easy to see and/or feel that at least one switch is ON.

    -rb
    Last edited by rjb; 05-30-2017 at 04:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    OT: This brings back some old memories... Back in 1977 I went to Stars Guitars on College Ave in Oakland to get two center-off DPDT mini-toggle switches for my Mustang. After wiring it up very carefully I was perplexed by the results and kept looking at my wiring and shaking my head until I finally discovered that they had sold me ON-ON-ON DPDT switches.

    I think it was a different shop on College Ave that sold me some 1/4" phone jacks that looked normal but turned out to be undersized after I had already soldered them in. Arghhh!!!

    Steve A.

    P.S. If I still had that Mustang I'd probably wire a series/parallel switch to give it a little oomph!

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    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    P.S. If I still had that Mustang I'd probably wire a series/parallel switch to give it a little oomph!
    That's what the scheme I referenced does.
    One switch becomes a 3-way selector (like a Tele) and the other is a series override.
    You lose the out-of-phase combination, but who cares?

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I don't know about the requirement of no signal being completely shut off.
    Looks like that defeats the point of 3 on off switches.

    What's wrong with this?
    http://www.1728.org/potenta.png
    Ha, ha, ha. OK. Working and gigging too much do take their toll after a while.
    The worst part is, I found a drawing on the edge of my desk that was pretty much exactly that. I have no recollection of making it, nor why it didn't seem acceptable at the time.

    Thanks a lot again Big Teee!

    This said, I am quite curious as to how to achieve the type of bypassing I was aiming for in my over-complicated attempt at resolving a simple problem. Would it be feasible at all in this configuration? Ie. how to bypass a part of the wiring when another part is connected together?

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    This is for a strat, but did you see this?
    "1964 Aged White" Superstrat Pickguard SSS for Strat
    All on or off, or betwitched or between?
    T
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    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by epizootics View Post
    This said, I am quite curious as to how to achieve the type of bypassing I was aiming for in my over-complicated attempt at resolving a simple problem. Would it be feasible at all in this configuration? Ie. how to bypass a part of the wiring when another part is connected together?
    You were so close.

    Move the red wire from the left column, middle row terminal of the right switch to the right column, top row terminal of the left switch.
    Disconnect the ground wire to the left switch.

    -rb

    PS: I don't have a secret scientific method for this - just stare, figger, & draw.
    PPS: Just because you can do it this way doesn't mean that you should.

    EDIT
    I'm beginning to see the logic of your switching scheme.
    Left switch DOWN: Right switch is a 3-way selector between the bridge and neck pickups.
    Left switch CENTER: Provides B/M and M/N "quack" positions, plus super-bright 3 pups in parallel.
    Left switch UP: Middle pickup override (right switch position ignored).
    Not as crazy as I thought at first.
    Last edited by rjb; 05-30-2017 at 08:44 PM.
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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    That's what the scheme I referenced does.
    One switch becomes a 3-way selector (like a Tele) and the other is a series override.
    You lose the out-of-phase combination, but who cares?
    I could not make heads or tails of the pictoral wiring diagram in the Premier Guitar article not knowing the internal construction of the Fender slide switches... unless completely obvious I like to see schematic drawings, too!

    BTW in a tele I really like adding a p-p phase switch to the 4-way selector switch which adds the series linkage of the two pickups but that might not work as well in a Mustang. As I recall there is room on the Mustang pickguard for 3 minitoggle switches (use washers to secure the two switches in the rectangular openings for the slide switches and drill a hole between them for the 3rd switch.)

    Steve A.

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    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    I could not make heads or tails of the pictoral wiring diagram in the Premier Guitar article not knowing the internal construction of the Fender slide switches... unless completely obvious I like to see schematic drawings, too!
    I also usually prefer schematics.
    But in this case, I figured I could just trust that the WD is correct, and copy it like a solder-monkey. I haven't analyzed it.
    But how many configurations of 3-position slide switches are there?


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    BTW in a tele I really like adding a p-p phase switch to the 4-way selector switch which adds the series linkage of the two pickups but that might not work as well in a Mustang.
    That's what I'm doing to my "Tele Special" (Mexican precursor of the "Fat Tele") as we speak.
    Except it's a 5-position switch; the "extra" position throws a cap across the bridge pickup for a muted Esquire vibe.
    And I replaced one of the criss-cross wires in the phase switch with a .01uF cap, for that Bill Lawrence "Half Out of Phase" fake Strat quack.
    The series cap also thins the neck pickup if it is selected while the HOoP switch is engaged.
    And, oh yea... replaced the pickups.........

    -rb

    EDIT
    From Stew Mac:

    1232 3-way, on/on/on
    For Mustang and Duosonic guitars. DP3T (double-pole/triple-throw), on/on/on switch has eight lugs, four on each pole.


    Now to go analyze that wiring diagram. Grrrr.

    EDIT 2
    The Premiere Guitar WD checks out.
    One possible source of confusion: Only one terminal of the "Series Preset Switch" is tied to ground.
    (The way it is drawn, you might think that three terminals in a row are tied together to ground.)
    Last edited by rjb; 05-31-2017 at 01:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    You were so close.

    Move the red wire from the left column, middle row terminal of the right switch to the right column, top row terminal of the left switch.
    Disconnect the ground wire to the left switch.

    -rb

    PS: I don't have a secret scientific method for this - just stare, figger, & draw.
    PPS: Just because you can do it this way doesn't mean that you should.

    EDIT
    I'm beginning to see the logic of your switching scheme.
    Left switch DOWN: Right switch is a 3-way selector between the bridge and neck pickups.
    Left switch CENTER: Provides B/M and M/N "quack" positions, plus super-bright 3 pups in parallel.
    Left switch UP: Middle pickup override (right switch position ignored).
    Not as crazy as I thought at first.
    Thanks!
    This was precisely the logic behind it. I think I'm on the fence after all - this setup has the advantage of not having any kill switch position, the latter still being quite likely to happen in case of an enthusiastic down- or up-stroke in the middle of a gig with the three spst switches. The middle pickup also happens to be the most distinctive one on the guitar - one of my deadly, paint-peelingly trebly Daneletro-type homemade pickups. I'll see what fits the guitar best once it is assembled (apricot wood non-reverse Firebird-ish body with a home designed bridge)...

  12. #12
    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by epizootics View Post
    ...I'll see what fits the guitar best once it is assembled (apricot wood non-reverse Firebird-ish body with a home designed bridge)...
    Kewel.

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