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Thread: Syndicate

  1. #1
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    Syndicate

    Hello. I live in a country without Syndicates or Unions traditions or culture. In fact I.m pretty ignorant and don.t know nothing about that. Can You recomend some good bibliography,good stuff reading material, please ? Thanks
    Last edited by catalin gramada; 09-05-2017 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #2
    rjb
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    You could start with "The Godfather" by Mario Puzo.
    Also check out the 1954 movie "On the Waterfront", directed by Elia Kazan.

    -rb
    Last edited by rjb; 09-05-2017 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Added emoticons

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjb View Post
    You could start with "The Godfather" by Mario Puzo.
    Also check out the 1954 movie "On the Waterfront", directed by Elia Kazan.

    -rb
    What are you talking about???
    Are you crazy?
    Catalin is asking about ***Industrial Worker´s*** Organizations, dedicated to defend mainly Industrial Worker´s rights, wages, work safety, Health, Pensions, etc. , on which Europe has a long and distinguished history, and you refer him to an American criminal organization?????

    Only brainwashed Americans believe Corporate propaganda equaling both.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catalin gramada View Post
    Hello. I live in a country without Syndicates or Unions traditions or culture. In fact I.m pretty ignorant and don.t know nothing about that. Can You recomend some good bibliography,good stuff reading material, please ? Thanks
    You´d be surprised.

    Let´s see how important (or not) are those German Unions:

    from https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigu...icSectors.html
    Persons employed in manufacturing 2015 7,272,990
    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_Germany
    Trade unions in Germany have a history reaching back to the German revolution in 1848, and still play an important role in the German economy and society.

    The most important labor organization is the German Confederation of Trade Unions (Deutscher Gewerkschaftsbund, or DGB), which is the umbrella association of eight single trade unions for individual economic sectors, representing more than 6 million people as of 2014. The largest single trade union is the IG Metall, which as of 2014 organizes about 2.3 million members in metal (including automobile and machine building), electronics, steel, textile, wood and synthetics industries.
    Sadly, Union influence in Economy and Society is winding down, like in everywhere else , simply because Industrial Jobs are going down for good, mainly because of cheap Asian labour outsourcing.

    Germany went from almost 50% Industrial workers) (IMPRESSIVE!!!!!), to barely above 20% today:
    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DEUPEDANA

    but still that does not deny the huge, above 80% worker´s participation in Unions (over 6 Million out of some over 7 Million Industrial jobs).

    Maybe they are not *so* visible, not making headlines, because system is almost perfect, works smoothly, there´s no huge strikes, street fighting, whatever, because worker´s rights are not being infringed upon

    In fact, Worker´s representatives are members of Company´s ruling Councils/Boards, not just as observers but with voting rights
    German industrial relations are characterized by a high degree of employee participation up to co-determination in companies' boards ("Aufsichtsrat"), where trade unionists and works councils elected by employees have full voting rights.
    Germany´s Union/Syndicate system is one of the most advanced in the World (if not THE most advanced).

    Just as a side note: why do you think the World mass of refugees is desperately trying to emigrate to Germany (where they expect to work at, say, a Volkswagen or Mercedes Benz factory) and not to USA (where they might park cars, sweep the floor or work as Wal Mart "greeters" ).

    Dear Catalin, I´ll search and link a couple good books for you.

    No, not "The Godfather"
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    Juan Manuel Fahey

  5. #5
    g1
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    As you can see, the word syndicate has very different meanings depending on where in the world you are.
    The french root means trade union, yet the american slang word refers to organized crime.
    I have a feeling you are referring to the traditional labour sense of the word.
    This is a very basic outline, but does look at various countries:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union
    Certified Dotard

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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    What are you talking about???
    Catalin is asking about ***Industrial Worker´s*** Organizations, dedicated to defend mainly Industrial Worker´s rights, wages, work safety, Health, Pensions, etc. , on which Europe has a long and distinguished history
    This is what I asking about. Sorry for confussion.Thanks
    Last edited by catalin gramada; 09-05-2017 at 09:25 PM.

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    I spended my last 10 years hauling chemicals tanks in whole Europe as international truck driver so I had the opportunity to meet coleagues belongs to different systems. French workers are the most effective talking about working rights, by far. I feel they have the high degree of conscience they are part of a system and react in consequence.The Germans are more likely they enjoy to stay in a row and tendency, in North of Europe, is to transform working contracts into comercial ones. this is more convenient for employers. In Germany workers have the smalest wages and extra benefits comparing with the neibourgh as Dutch, Belgians, French, UK, Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Sweeden. It is a tendency to rise the working time and consider Saturday as 6th working day by law. I did not saw any resistance against those tendencies in Germany, they prefer simply to not do it instead to fight against. In consequences a lot of works are not performed by Germans at all but imigrants which accept this shit cause are mercenary and they don.t know where they are comming from. They have not any working conscience as belongs to a part of a whole and have not to respect the memory of its parents and grandparents
    From my country are four milions people (specialists and general workers) which works "outside". It is terible hard to find a skiled worker in my country nowadays. And that.s happened in all East-Europeans blocks. Germany spend less with this guys as are cheap workers and the law is favorable for employers. For instance a german employer have to spend more three times with a german worker than a imigrant + social beneffits. This is the truth about German economy miracle. Now they have the biggest workers deficit and try to compensate with Muslims, guys which have not any working culture but are wariors instead (they thought can put a safety vest on it and send it to make roads for Germans). There are allready two millions in Germany comming from last wave. The extremists comes against imported workers and not recognize the real problem is the politics of states which permit to employers to have an alternative against their own citizens
    Well..I know there are no chances to change some, but this is not a reason to not fight against
    Last edited by catalin gramada; 09-05-2017 at 11:58 PM.
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  8. #8
    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    What are you talking about???
    Are you crazy?
    Please calm down. The question was a bit ambiguous, and I was just playing devil's advocate. Or perhaps devil....

    On the other hand:
    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    you refer him to an American criminal organization?????
    The last time I checked, the Cosa Nostra was a Sicilian criminal organization.
    And, although some mainland Italians may wish otherwise, Sicily is part of Italy.
    And, although some EU members may wish otherwise, Italy is part of Europe.
    So we're referring to a European criminal organization, capisce?

    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    Catalin is asking about ***Industrial Worker´s*** Organizations, dedicated to defend mainly Industrial Worker´s rights, wages, work safety, Health, Pensions, etc. , on which Europe has a long and distinguished history,
    I concur; many trade unions have done a lot of great stuff.
    However, although it might be libelous to equate labor unions with criminal organizations, it would be naive to deny that criminal organizatios have participated in labor unions - whether that participation was welcome or not.
    <unsubstantiated_rumor>
    Please recall why Jimmy Hoffa attended every event at Giants stadium from 1976 thru 2010. Allegedly.
    </unsubstantiated_rumor>

    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    Only brainwashed Americans believe Corporate propaganda equaling both.
    During the late 1970's, I worked summers at closed-shop ITT Continental Baking Company.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contin...Baking_Company
    Although my experience there wasn't quite like Hoboken longshoreman Terry Malloy's (ref. On the Waterfront)....
    Well, let me put it this way:
    I guarantee that our slick-haired, tailor-suited, silk-tied, shiny-shoed, pinky-ringed Union Local President never worked an honest day in his life.

    But maybe I was brainwashed,
    -rb

    PS:
    <red_herring>
    If Germany's Union/Syndicate system is so darn wonderful, why did C.F. Martin emigrate to the U.S to escape oppressive Trade Guild rules?
    </red_herring>
    Last edited by rjb; 09-06-2017 at 05:40 AM. Reason: Display sig
    You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
    I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.
    - Terry Malloy

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    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Probably he didn't want to take a lifetime to rise through the ranks when he knew he could do what it takes already.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    Oddly I find the Sylvester Stallone movie F.I.S.T to be a very engaging description of the need for, and subsequent pitfalls of, Unions in the US, its perhaps his best movie.

    But there are of course also many good books!

  11. #11
    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Probably he didn't want to take a lifetime to rise through the ranks when he knew he could do what it takes already.
    The story is a little more complicated. (This all preceded Juan's praised trade unions. I said it was a red herring.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._F._Martin_%26_Company

    In the early 1800s, European craftsmen still operated under the guild system. The guitar (in its modern form) was a relatively new instrument, and most guitar makers were members of the Cabinet Makers' Guild. However, the Violin Makers' Guild claimed exclusive rights to manufacture musical instruments. The Violin Makers' Guild filed appeals on three occasions—the first in 1806—to prevent cabinet makers from producing guitars. Johann Martin is mentioned in a surviving submission dated 1832.

    Although the cabinet makers successfully defended their right to build guitars, C. F. Martin believed that the guild system was too restrictive and moved to New York City in 1833. By 1838, he moved his business to Nazareth, Pennsylvania.
    You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.
    I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.
    - Terry Malloy

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