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Thread: Woodstock -- 3 Days of Peace and Music -- 47 Years Later

  1. #36
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschertron View Post
    "Have I offended anyone?" FZ
    Now that we've mentioned both Cooper and Zappa in the same thread, that reminds me of the time that Alice Cooper was accused of geeking chickens on-stage. Frank Zappa called him and asked him if he really did that. Cooper told him no. Zappa responded by telling Cooper that no matter what, he shouldn't tell anyone that he didn't do it.

    the crazy stories help sell the mystique... they provide the kind of advertising for your act that you couldn't buy if you wanted to.
    Last edited by bob p; 09-24-2017 at 10:00 PM.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  2. #37
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Now Skeeter I remember.

    SKEETER DAVIS
    LIVE AT THE
    BOB MARLEY PERFORMING ARTS CENTER
    MONTEGO BAY, JAMAICA

    SILVER THREADS AND GOLDEN NEEDLES
    AM I THAT EASY TO FORGET
    MY LAST DATE
    BLUE KENTUCKY GIRL
    THE ROCKABYE BOOGIE
    IT WASNT GOD WHO MADE HONY TONK ANGELS
    ILL FLY AWAY
    ONE TIN SOLDIER
    EVERYBODY WANTS A COWBOY
    I GOTTA KNOW
    ROCKY TOP
    BAND INTRODUCTION
    THE END OF THE WORLD
    ENCORE BREAK
    THE ROSE

  3. #38
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    Now that we've mentioned both Cooper and Zappa in the same thread
    File under "what's old is new again." I always took Alice Cooper's act to be derived from Screamin' Jay Hawkins, who had a hit with "I Put A Spell On You" in 1955. From Wikipedia:

    "Hawkins wore a long cape, and appeared onstage by rising out of a coffin in the midst of smoke and fog. The act was a sensation, later bolstered by tusks worn in Hawkins' nose, on-stage snakes and fireworks, and a cigarette-smoking skull named Henry. This theatrical act was one of the first shock rock performances."

    Green makeup on Mr. Hawkins too . . . this didn't go well with parents & churches etc, and got his music banned from the radio. All the more attractive to rebellious teenagers of the time of course! It's sort of a hoot to trace his harmless hijinks thru Cooper and on to Marilyn Manson.

    There was one of those TV interviews a few years back where Alice explains it all started with a pillow fight on stage at the 1969 Toronto Rock n Roll Festival. His band was unknown, just starting out, and of course gathering the "wrong kind of attention" with their long hair and girly costumes. Someone threw a chicken onstage as the feathers from broken pillows settled down, and Alice tossed the chicken into the audience, thinking it would fly like a pigeon. Not only did the flight test fail, the audience ripped the poor chicken to shreds and there's the beginning of a long successful career. Alice's band was on Frank's new Straight label, subsidiary of Warner Brothers, and Frank advised Alice as you said bob, "don't let 'em know you didn't do it." Wise advice as usual from Frank. Whatever the parents hate, will sell like crazy to the kids, and it worked like a charm didn't it?

  4. #39
    rjb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    Looking at the line up I was thinking " WTH was Ronnie Milsap doing there?".
    I certainly don't remember that performance.
    Maybe he wasn't there after all.
    His set is the only one missing from the soundboard recording CDs sold here.
    1982 JAMAICA WORLD MUSIC FESTIVAL CD PAGE
    And his name is missing from "Festival Poster II".
    Note: That poster looks like the clunky, blocky graphics style of the Globe Poster Printing Corp of Baltimore.
    Kinda fun to note which act was chosen as the (visual) headliner for each night....

    OK, enough with the babbling,
    -rb
    Last edited by rjb; 09-25-2017 at 01:30 AM.

  5. #40
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    I believe that you are correct.

    He didn't make it.

  6. #41
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Screamin' Jay...far out.

    Screamin' Jay was a hoot, he directly spawned Arthur Brown - the god of hell fire.

    When I was on the radio, I had a couple drops from Screamin' JAy Hawkins. During I Put a Spell On You, he screams WHOa YEah Muh. I grabbed the "Muh" word (?) and put it on a cart. Then any time my name was mentioned on the air, I hit the MUH cart. So it was as if someone reacted in disgust at the sound of my name.

    "I don't care if you don't want me, I'm yours."
    Mark Hammer likes this.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  7. #42
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Screamin' Jay was a hoot, he directly spawned Arthur Brown - the god of hell fire.
    Crikeys yes, Arthur Brown, he of the octave-jumping voice: "you're gonna burn burn burn burn --- yeAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" Well Screamin' Jay was outdone there, it's kind of tough to match a guy who drops onto stage from a crane, with a flaming helmet on. Arthur Brown's band members included the incendiary Vincent Crane on Hammond, and a young Carl Palmer on drums. Hard to beat! For the past couple decades Brown has lent his talents to leading people to the Lord as a preacher in Texas. Who could have predicted that turn in his career?

  8. #43
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Screamin' JAy couldn't hit those Arthur Brown high notes, but he had such a rich powerful baritone voice that Brown could only wish for.

    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  9. #44
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Screamin' JAy couldn't hit those Arthur Brown high notes, but he had such a rich powerful baritone voice that Brown could only wish for.
    Another singer with a terrific voice later became one of Alice Cooper's favorite golf partners. And that guy made the papers with his shocking activities in decades preceding Screamin' Jay. Maybe the man from Hoboken is the one to blame/credit for the shock rock trend? Parents forbade their daughters from attending his concerts during the bobby-soxers era. Imagine that!




  10. #45
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    Episode 840 - Alice Cooper ? WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

    Decent interview. Goes into his golfing with the dignitaries, and the early days in L.A.

  11. #46
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    I think it is worth remembering that Woodstock took place in 1969, well before the growth of the Holocaust denial movement, skinheads, and such. Not that concentration-camp survivors were in any sense blasé about the appearance of swastikas, but there was less vigilance at that time about their appearance here or there. In other words, the perceived threat wasn't as great so the reaction was small and muted.

  12. #47
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    RE: Amps

    Worth noting that in 1969, Guitar Player magazine was only 2 years old, thin, and as likely to focus on flatpickers as rockers. Downbeat magazine had a longer track record at that point, but when I flip through issues I have from that period, the ads are not for high-powered tube amps, but for reeds, snares, and clean amps that a jazz player could use to play the music of that era. I would buy the occasional issue of Jazz & Pop, but they only had ads for albums, not gear (though I have a fuzzy recollection of an ad for Sunn amps in one issue).

    In any event, in 1969 we had few ways to know what was available, or desirable, apart from the few music stores, all of which were as likely to cater to high-school bands as gigging musicians. So the "lore" of amps was minimal. When I was in a band in 1973, I had heard that Bassmans were supposed to be great for guitar, but that was as much as I knew or could find out. For a gig, I borrowed a guy's blackface Bassman head, and used it to drive a 12" speaker I bought at Radio Shack and had installed in a cab I made. I wasn't particularly impressed and dismissed what I had heard abut the mystique of Bassmans. I now own one of those Bassmans the legends were based on, but that's only because twenty years later I knew more and was able to recognize it when I saw it in a pawn shop.

    I might add that in the late 60's and early 70's, many players were also turning away from Telecasters because "they were too thin-sounding". That may well have prompted the development of the Tele Deluxe with the two "wide-range humbuckers - an attempt to sound less thin.

  13. #48
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    I think it is worth remembering that Woodstock took place in 1969, well before the growth of the Holocaust denial movement, skinheads, and such. Not that concentration-camp survivors were in any sense blasé about the appearance of swastikas, but there was less vigilance at that time about their appearance here or there. In other words, the perceived threat wasn't as great so the reaction was small and muted.
    You make a good point about the Holocaust denial movement and the skinheads increasing modern awareness. The Neo-Nazis have had an effect in the modern era to motivate people who would otherwise not be motivated in the fight to suppress symbols of National Socialist Nazism. The modern day Neo-Nazi movement is openly racist and is viewed as a real and present danger to freedom by modern society; people respond to a present danger differently than they react to the historical one which had been eradicated almost completely throughout the world. In the context you've suggested it is easy to understand why the swastika bothers people more today than it did in 1969. Thank you for that insightful comment.

    Some of this enhanced modern awareness and motivation to suppress the symbol may be attributable to the change in what the swastika represents symbolically in the modern era. As a result of the modern day Neo-Nazi movement the swastika has come to symbolize something different today than it meant in the 1930s-1940s. In both era the swastika was used as a representative symbol of racism. But today the Neo-Nazi use of the swastika represents racism in the form of white supremacy; 75+ years ago it represented racism in the form of Aryan supremacy, which cannot accurately be called synonymous with white supremacy.

    For reasons that have never been particularly transparent, many people today refer inaccurately to Nazi Germany as having been a white supremacist state. It would be more accurate to say that Nazi Germany was an Aryan supremacist / genocidal state that succeeded in killing about 12 million people -- from a number of ethnic and social groups that the German Nazis considered racially inferior to the Aryans; one of the main objectives in their military quest was the Drang nach Osten in their quest for Lebensraum. This was embodied in Generalplan Ost (a plan modeled after the American expansion of the West), in which the Nazis planned ongoing genocide of millions more people in the colonization of Central and Eastern Europe through the enslavement, expulsion and mass murder of indigenous white people who they considered racially inferior to Aryans.

    Looking at history it is fallacious to equate modern day Neo-Nazis with the original National Socialist movement of Germany in the 1930s, even though both movements have much in common. While both movements have been founded upon racism, the first one based it's racism upon a narrower belief in Aryan supremacy while the newer one is based upon a more broad belief in white supremacy. The fact that both ideologies are equally false does not make them equivalent. Those who claim that the Nazi swastika has always been a symbol of white supremacy are not making accurate claims. Unfortunately it is not clear whether these people make such false claims out of ignorance or sophistry.
    Last edited by bob p; 09-25-2017 at 07:25 PM.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  14. #49
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Occam´s razor / Enzo´s logic makes me pick the simplest of two "explanations", unless proven the contrary= think ignorance rather than sophistry.

    As of Nazism, I suggest doing what only a few do: actually read "Mein Kampf .... it´s all there
    A few tidbits:
    * Hitler was not a White Supremacist by any means, never ever did he say "blonde blue eyed people are superior", if anything because neither him nor any other Nazi figurehead were so, just-look-at-the-pictures.
    And the peoples who they were set to capture and dominate *were* blue eyed blondes: Russians, Poles and Ukrainians !!!!!!!!
    The ridiculous phrase I mentioned above was pure Hollywood version of History, matching cheesy CIA (in those days: OSS) propaganda machine.

    * He WAS a fervent German Nationalist, trying to unite all Germanic people under one flag ... which he did for a few years: Germany, Austria, germanic areas in Czechoslovakia (all these peacefully) and through war germanic people living inside the Russian/Soviet Empire, including the so called "Volga Germans" , of which we have a ton in Argentina.

    And of course the eternal conflict provinces disputed with France and at the origin of 3 wars : Alsace and Lorraine, legally French but where everybody´s surname is Schmidt or similar and favorite food is sauerkraut or potato salad.

    * remember Germany itself had been *created* as a Country out of 5 contiguous smaller ones in 1871, just 27 years before Hitler was born (1898).
    Remember "just converted/created" people feel quite uncertain about themselves and compensate by being extremely fanatic about that issue.
    Applies all over the place, it´s a Human trait.

    Under that, *anything/anybody* "non German" or "foreign" was considered the utmost danger, worth a preventive strike if percieved necessary "just for safety".
    So : Jews, Gypsies, East Europeans, anybody not clearly "germanic" was "the enemy".

    No need to look to far away, neither in distance or time, just look around and check perceived "danger", at different levels, attributed to "moslems", "undocumented Latinos" and even USA born for generations "African Americans".

    and so on and on and on.

    So much did Hitler spill the beans in his book, which was available everywhere and sold millions, that Stalin himself was *stupid* fo not having read it : among other stuff he clearly mentioned that sooner than later they had to invade the underpopulated resource rich "lands to the East".

    Only recently I learned that he wrote Mein Kampf II and his generals stopped its publication: he explained in detail the plans to invade Poland, France and Russia.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  15. #50
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    As of Nazism, I suggest doing what only a few do: actually read "Mein Kampf .... it´s all there
    The problem is that reading Mein Kampf in America is likely to get you labeled as a Neo-Nazi, even if you only read it as a student of history.

    In the American school system we were taught that we had to fight Nazi Germany because Germany was being run by a crazy psychopath, end of story. We were told that that America became involved in WWII because the world must be made safe for democracy.

    Conveniently omitted from the American educational curriculum were the effects that the Carthaginian peace provided in the Treaty of Versailles, the unrealistic compulsory hard-money reparations (revanchism) as defined in Article 231, the resultant hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, and the last straw -- the overt stripping of all valuable natural resources from the Rhine region of postwar Germany, in what came to be known as the Rhinekampf. It took me decades of extracurricular reading to come to understand the how the Allied policies that followed WWI could so completely destroy a nation economically, reducing an entire nation to poverty and thereby contributing to the reasons that reasonable people would consider embracing an ultra-nationalist and racist leader. It's too bad that the big picture isn't being taught in our schools.

    The ridiculous phrase I mentioned above was pure Hollywood version of History, matching cheesy CIA (in those days: OSS) propaganda machine.
    Hollywood propaganda, like this?

    e34dd1b9c31c72c97e52ba4dbf5dcfcd.jpghitlerschildrendvd.jpg
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  16. #51
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    * He WAS a fervent German Nationalist, trying to unite all Germanic people under one flag ... which he did for a few years: Germany, Austria, germanic areas in Czechoslovakia (all these peacefully) ...
    The Czechs don't remember their subjugation by the Germans as having occurred peacefully. They view it as the result of Western betrayal.

    The Sudety region of the First Czechoslovak Republic (commonly referred to as the "Sudetenland" in Germany) did not exist prior to the WWI. When Austria-Hungary was dismembered after WWI the minority of Sudeten Germans found themselves in what became the First Czechoslovak Republic. Nazi Germany claimed that they wanted to unite all of the Germanic people under one flag, which would have included the minorities of Germans living in the Czech provinces of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia.

    It is important to remember that Hitler wrote Mein Kampf as propaganda. He focused on the fact that the Sudety region contained German speaking peoples who were ripe for re-unification and that it was Germany's ethnic duty to pursue re-unifiaction, while conveniently remaining mute on the the fact that the region was of immense strategic importance to Czechoslovakia (and to the Nazis) as Czechoslovakia's heavy industrial districts, it's banks, and it's primary military border defenses were situated there. Looking at the conquest of the Sudety from a larger perspective, the Wehrmacht (war machine) was likely most interested in capturing Czechoslovakia's heavy industry, it's stores of hard currency and the Czech Army's military defenses, to utilize them in the Wehrmacht's Drang nach Osten (the Eastern thrust), than it was in re-unifying Germanic peoples. While the reunification of German-speaking peoples made for good propaganda, the areas that were annexed primarily contained valuable strategic assets, people of primarily Czechoslovak ancestry and only a small minority of "Germanic peoples."

    Now that we know the true reason that Czechoslovakia was annexed, let's look at how the annexation was executed.

    The fact that the conquest of Czechoslovakia was completed peacefully can largely be blamed upon the policies of Western appeasement, rather than upon willingness to be assimilated on the part of the Czechs. The transfer of the Sudetenland and the annexation of the remainder of Czechoslovakia as a protectorate of the Reich occurred as a result of the Munich Agreement. In the Munich Agreement it was France, the UK and Italy who handed Czechoslovakia over to the Germans. Representatives of the Czechoslovak Republic were not even invited to attend the conference that decided their fate. Although we refer to the agreement as the "Munich Agreement" here in the West, in the modern day Central Europe it continues to be referred to as the "Mnichovský diktát" (Czech for "Munich Diktat") and as the "Mnichovská zrada" (The Munich Betrayal), because the military alliance that the Czechs had with France proved to be worthless.

    One has to consider that the only reason that the assimilation of the First Czech Republic occurred "peacefully" was because the Western powers gave the Czech Army, industry and banking system to Nazi Germany, leaving no means of effective resistance available to the Czech people. Western scholars like to put forth the claim that the Nazi transition occurred "peacefully" but the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.

    In 1939 as the occupied Czechs celebrated the anniversary of the Czechoslovak Declaration of Independence, students at the Charles University in Praha called for resistance against the German occupation, and effectively organized strikes and demonstrations throughout the Nazi Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. German police began shooting into the crowd injuring and killing some of the protestors. In response, Reichsprotektor Konstantin von Neurath responded with the Sonderaktion Prag, in which all Czech universities and colleges were closed and 1850 students were arrested and/or executed, 1200 of whom were interned in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp. These events are the basis for the celebration of International Students' Day on November 17.

    Perhaps most famously, Czech resistance was responsible for the 1942 assassination of the highest ranking Nazi official to date, Reinhard Heydrich, who was the head of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (Reich Main Security Office, which included the Gestapo, Kripo, SD and the Einsatzgruppen death squads), the organizer of Kristallnacht, the Reichsprotektor of Bohemia and Moravia and Hitler's chief architect of The Final Solution. In typical Nazi fashion, reprisals included the murder of 5000 people and the Lidice massacre in which all adult men in the village of Lidice were put to death, with the remaining women and children being sent to concentration camps to be gassed. The Ležáky massacre followed shortly thereafter, in which the entire population of the village was killed. Ležáky remains unpopulated to this day.

    Ultimately the Slovaks responded in force via the Slovak National Uprising in 1944 and the Czechs followed with the Prague Uprising in 1945, both of which failed.

    The truth is that none of the Nazi protectorates were ever taken peacefully. In the West we only like to think of it that way because accepting responsibility for Nazi appeasement is so unpalatable.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

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