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Thread: Super Reverb Repair Cost -- Give Us Your Quote

  1. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    That tech signature is scary. It looks like it says...SGM.
    He's ba-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
    Let us pray...
    Well, maybe it's "AGM," for AmpGuruMan.
    Oh, no - hopefully it's not an SGM disciple! Is that Super now loaded with Silver Mica caps in every position?

    Justin
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  2. #37
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Read for comprehension. That bill didn't say anything about power tubes, and those of us who said we'd charge $18-$20 per tube obviously aren't selling power tubes at that price. And yes, a Super Reverb is a 40W amp that only uses a pair, not a quad, of 6L6.

    My point in starting this thread isn't to bash any of the brick and mortar stores for what they charge. If they charge a lot, and they fix the amp and they have satisfied customers, then they've done a good job. It looks like they're proud of their work by the prices they charge. There's no problem with that if you can look past the nebulous labor charge that doesn't mention rate or time.

    To those people who charge less than half as much, my suggestion would be the same suggestion I've had all along -- If we charge $250-$300 and someone else charges over $600 then maybe we're not charging enough for providing the exact same service. It's evident that the market will bear $600 charges for relatively simple repairs.

    That red herring argument about health insurance has no bearing on the discussion. In the USA everyone has health insurance, it's the law. You're forced to buy it or you pay a penalty for not buying it. (for now)

    I'm independent and I have health insurance and a retirement plan, so it's not an apples to apples comparison to imply that the brick and mortar store can justify more than doubling the repair price because they provide employee benefits while independent techs do not. I provide the same benefits that they provide, probably MORE benefits than they provide, and I still charge half as much.

    Why?

    What's really going on is that there are more cost-center layers built into a large shop operation. Independent techs only have to provide income to one layer of employee -- the self-employed tech who wears the tech hat, the management hat, and probably does his own bookkeeping. Large Brick and Mortar stores that have a fleet of workers have to provide income to more than one layer of employees -- they have to employ the techs, and they also have to employ a layer of office management & bookkeeping that's separate, as well as an owner who expects his store to be profitable and give him a paycheck. With more layers of people to feed costs will be higher.

    A corollary to the motto "Don't undercut someone else's prices, it only weakens wages in the industry" should be "Don't undercut your own prices, doing that weakens the industry too."

    What this thread shows us is that there's room to move up on your prices and you shouldn't feel guilty about doing so. Your time, knowledge and expertise have value. Don't sell yourself short. Treat yourself like your knowledge and expertise are as valuable as they really are.
    Last edited by bob p; 12-16-2017 at 08:51 PM.
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  3. #38
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    The tech couldn't have been SGM -- it doesn't say "Crate-Peg" anywhere on the ticket.
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    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  4. #39
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    You have a point there.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I think if we re-read the thread, we will find the four tubes were specified as preamp tubes. So $80 for a quad of 12AX7, not 6L6.

    Super Reverb only has two 6L6 anyway.



    That tech signature is scary. It looks like it says...SGM.
    whoops sorry justin I totally misread

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    Bob I can get you a job at the shop they need a full time tech badly. I said I wont work there but I'll help them out here and there if they need it, so if you're backlogged you can call me.

    Edit: and I was joking earlier. although the sig looked to say SGM, SGM does not work there so it's not like you have to hang out with him all day

  7. #42
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Only (posted) 3rd coast Tech with initials matching those in the bill (scribbled AGM) is:
    https://www.thirdcoastguitar.com/the-techs/#andy-miller
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  8. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    Only (posted) 3rd coast Tech with initials matching those in the bill (scribbled AGM) is:
    https://www.thirdcoastguitar.com/the-techs/#andy-miller
    That link didn't show his info for me, but this one did: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=ca

    However, he is listed as one of the guitar techs. The only tech listed as doing amps has initials MT.
    I'm guessing this was a farmed out repair that got marked up some ridiculous amount.
    Their guitar work pricing seems reasonable enough.
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    Don't bring the old MT into this. He is actually the best guy ever. I really admire this guy, for his knowledge and also for his ability to always be pretty much in a good mood.

    Not sure why he's still on the page. he moved to AZ over the summer and now is ascending the ranks at CE dist I'm really fortunate becasuse he has really given me a lot of support in my work.

    There are a few amazing tech people I've met in person in my life. Not to disparage all the other tech people I've mingled with here and there. But Enzo takes the cake obviously. MT, wow that guys kinda inspirational in his whole own regard. We used to talk about Enzo sometimes when I would do my pickups/dropoffs.

    When I fist met him I had to ask, just for my own curiousity, "Hey man, do you know who Enzo is?"

    of course he said yes

    then I showed him the picture of when we met

    Big Ass Fans
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  10. #45
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Oh, nothing personal, of course.
    I just got intrigued by the initials written in that outrageous bill and searched for names (published by themselves by the way) which could possibly match that.
    Basic research procedure if you ask me.

    But since you know somebody related to them, you might ask him what he thinks about this and even who that mystery Tech might be

    By your description he was still there in 2016.
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    Juan Manuel Fahey

  11. #46
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    That red herring argument about health insurance has no bearing on the discussion. In the USA everyone has health insurance, it's the law. You're forced to buy it or you pay a penalty for not buying it.
    I'm not even going to argue about why this is a load of fertilizer (because it's unpleasant and boring) other than to say that it's not as simple as that and I'm an example. So the argument stands IMO. "Let them eat cake." doesn't apply here.
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  12. #47
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    I know tons of USA people without Health Insurance and those who have it, is either because some employer pays for it or they pay for it themselves.
    Didn´t know about the penalty (do you mean a fine or something?) but in any case THE big penalty is not having access to Health care when really needed.
    And that is worse than any fine.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  13. #48
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Part of the ACA - affordable care act - was that everyone had to have insurance. There was a monetary penalty for not having insurance or being officially excluded, it was assessed on your annual federal tax return. Some people found it was cheaper to pay the $100 or whatever it amounted to than to buy insurance, so they went that way. Of course if they were in a car wreck or caught cancer, too bad.

    I realize this is the Lobby section, but I kinda hate to see an amp repair thread tainted with politics, even down here.
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  14. #49
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I realize this is the Lobby section, but I kinda hate to see an amp repair thread tainted with politics, even down here.
    +1

    My bad. It came up as a peripheral part of the reasoning and it was me that made it a target.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    I know tons of USA people without Health Insurance and those who have it, is either because some employer pays for it or they pay for it themselves.
    Didn´t know about the penalty (do you mean a fine or something?) but in any case THE big penalty is not having access to Health care when really needed.
    And that is worse than any fine.
    For my family of 2 with me being only one employed making maybe 32000 a yr at the cabinet shop and one dependant on SSI. ACA costs me $0 a month, dental cost 31 a month. The only thing I can do at this point is take advantage of it while it's here. Instead of going off what everyone was saying my wife checked into it an signed us up 2yrs ago. We have Blue cross and Blue Shield and Co pays are roughly $10 a visit and scripts are $2 each.

    YMMV,

    nosaj

  16. #51
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    I know tons of USA people without Health Insurance and those who have it, is either because some employer pays for it or they pay for it themselves.
    Didn´t know about the penalty (do you mean a fine or something?) but in any case THE big penalty is not having access to Health care when really needed.
    And that is worse than any fine.
    I don't mind the hijack. That kind of stuff happens.

    There are a mass of interwoven laws here in the USA that make the situation complicated.

    Hospitals, emergency rooms and doctors are required to provide emergency services without regard for a person's ability to pay for them. It is illegal to refuse to provide emergency care based upon a peson's inability to pay for it. It's unfortunate but our hospital emergency rooms tend to become crowded by people who go to them to seek care for non-emergency conditions, sometimes because they don't have insurance to provide for a regular non-emergency clinic visit. Using emergency rooms as a proxy for an urgent care clinic visit tends to decrease the accessibility of the ER staff to people who have true emergencies. One of the proposed benefits of the ACA was that it should have allowed those people who sought primary care in the ER to be able to obtain it in a non-emergency clinic, thereby decreasing the congestion problem in the ER. It was a good idea that didn't pan out. The ER are still crowded with urgent care, non-emergency clientèle. Perhaps some of this is because the average person doesn't understand the difference between urgency and emergency. Most people consider an urgent/non-emergent situation to constitute an emergency if it involves them.

    Re: Health insurance

    Most employers used to offer heath insurance as part of the perks/benefits package that they used to attract and retain employees. I grew up in a steel mill neighborhood where generations of families worked in the mills. 100 years ago there were no benefits and working conditions in the mills were deadly. Accidents killed people all the time. When workers had strikes over unsafe working conditions the steel bosses brought in the city police to break up the strikes by shooting and killing protestors.

    Fast forward 50 years and the pendulum had swung the other way -- through collective bargaining the steelworkers' unions compelled the company to give them a very good benefits and retirement package to all of their unionized labor.

    Fast forward another 50 years and the pendulum had swung back again -- as part of the ACA our congress re-wrote the laws effecting healthcare for retirees, which effectively allowed that same steel company to stop providing the great "Cadillac" health coverage that it was contractually obliged to give to retirees, and to dump them into the federal medicare pool. The result was that the steel company no longer had to pay for the Cadillac MediGap health plan that they had been contractually bound to buy for retirees. Big Steel was able to stop paying those healthcare benefits altogether and those retirees were now going to be forced to buy their own supplemental health insurance at their own expense to replace the "Cadillac" health plan that used to be a part of their standard benefits package. Because individuals were buying one policy at a time, the costs were much higher than when Big Steel bought policies by the tens of thousands. That was a big score for the employers who got to stop paying premiums, and for the insurance companies who got to charge higher premiums for lesser quality policies. The ACA has helped some people and hurt some people, but along the way the Fortune 500 and the insurance companies made out like bandits. Just look at their stock price charts.

    That was a dirty little part of obamacare that the proponents don't like to talk about. People who had great health plans lost them when they were the law allowed large corporations to renege on their previous healthcare obligations, dumping everyone into the federal pool or forcing them to buy their own insurance independently. Prior to the ACA my parents had 100% paid healthcare, no prescription fees, no co-pays. After the ACA they had to start paying premiums of thousands of dollars per year that they never had to pay before, to buy coverage that wasn't anywhere near as good as what they had before. There's no doubt about it, the ACA helped a lot of people but it pulled the rug out from under a lot of people too. It's no surprise that some people love it while others hate it. Most social redistribution programs work that way.

    When it comes to the tax penalty for refusing to buy health insurance: when a person in the US files their federal income tax return, they have to file an attachment provided by their insurance company or employer that indicates how many months of healthcare coverage they had during the year. If they don't have coverage they are forced to calculate a tax penalty that is commensurate with their income level. That $100 penalty that was referenced earlier is not universal. One would have to be near the poverty level to get away with a penalty that low because the penalty is in essence a progressive supplemental income tax. Here's how the "Shared Responsibility Payment for Not Maintaining Minimum Essential Coverage" is actually spelled out:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013...2013-21157.pdf
    Last edited by bob p; 12-17-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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  17. #52
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    You guys know the new tax bill killed the individual mandate, right?
    Final GOP tax bill repeals ObamaCare mandate | TheHill
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  18. #53
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Bill != Law

    I'm just a bill
    yes I'm only a bill
    and I'm sitting here
    on Capitol Hill

    Well, It's a long long journey
    to the Capitol City
    It's a long long wait
    while I'm sitting in Committee

    But I know I'll be a law someday
    At least I hope and Pray
    that I will but today
    I am still just a bill.



    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

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  19. #54
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    The $100 was just an example number. Some student perhaps. The point was that whatever the penalty was, many people were calculating the cost of that penalty versus the cost of the required insurance coverage, and finding the penalty cheaper. $100, $1000, doesn;t matter.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  20. #55
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    I don't doubt that lots of people heard someone from the media tell them that it's cheaper to pay the penalty than to buy insurance. But how many people actually did that calculation themselves? Not many, I think. I think most people just believed what the TV told them, and accepted the mythical $100 penalty figure.

    I actually did the calculations on the cost of buying insurance, but I was totally unable to estimate the penalty. Why? Because in the first year of the ACA the penalty information just wasn't out there. There were rumors of penalties, and TV pundit talk of penalties, but nothing concrete for a real person to rely upon. I had to make the decision to buy a policy under the ACA in December, before the penalty information became available when the tax forms were finally published in the new year. None of that penalty information was available by the first year's enrolment deadline. All we had to rely upon at the time were the talking heads on TV who told us stories of doom and gloom of how bad things might be if we opted-out.

    How many people rolled the dice and took their chances on paying the undefined penalty? How many people actually believed that it would be cheaper to not have insurance, suffer a possibly catastrophic loss, and save a bit of premium money, and pay the penalty instead? I can't answer those questions, but I can tell that those ideas obviously amount to false economy that's based on rolling the dice with your health. I doubt that people who did much analysis of the actual cost of buying insurance made that kind of gambling-based decision. Maybe some people avoided doing the analysis because they're bad at math. I did my due diligence and I crunched the numbers that were available.

    That concept of preferring to accept risk and pay the penalty was a short-sighted philosophy that was more likely spoken by the TV pundits than was actually practiced by real people with math skills. Why? Two reasons:

    1. The cost of not having health insurance is far higher than the penalty would imply, even though a TV pundit's breakeven analysis might try to dupe the viewer by suggesting that they're the same. The TV pundit's analysis leaves out the realized cost of a catastrophic illness without insurance, when it focuses only upon dollars spent on penalty vs. dollars spent on coverage. Saying that the cost of insurance and the cost of the penalty are similar is ludicrous. Buying insurance gets you coverage. Paying a penalty does not.

    2. The actual cost of buying health insurance under the ACA is heavily subsidized by the government, to the point that it's "almost free" for low income people. The following chart shows the actual cost of buying a Silver Plan in 2014 for a single middle-aged male non-smoker with income anywhere between $12,000 and $50,000.



    The linear slope of the lines makes it clear that the subsidy is progressive. The amount of "wallet pain" that an individual has to suffer to buy insurance is calculated as a direct percentage of their income. This example clearly illustrates a linear social distribution of expense between the individual and society as embodied by the individual and government contributions to the individual's premium. With an income of $12,000 that guy in the graph pays $20 per month for his $525 policy while the government pays $505, and a linear relationship continues until the government contributions stop at $46,500. It would seem that the government thinks that if you've got $46,500 in income then you make enough to be on your own.

    At $20 per month, that comes out to $240 per year for a policy that actually costs $525 * 12 = $6300. It's hard to imagine that anyone would prefer to pay a $100 penalty instead of getting a $6300 insurance package for $240, even someone at the low end of the scale. The chart demonstrates that the government contributions are quite generous.

    IMO choosing to opt for the penalty is natural selection in progress.

    FYI: The chart is based upon actual 2014 data from the ACA web site premium quotes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screenshot.png  
    Last edited by bob p; 12-17-2017 at 09:04 PM.
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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    You miss the point. It is the people who were not going to buy insurance in the first place. That applies especially to young adults, they all think they will live forever and are invulnerable.

    They face the decision to either buy new insurance or pay a penalty. No matter how mistaken they may be over the penalty amount, they perceive it as less than the insurance cost.

    You need not sell us on the cost of catastrophic illness versus the insured cost, people like me understand that, a week in the hospital will be at least $20,000.

    But some young 24 year old has priorities.
    1. Don't tell me what to do.
    2. I can game the system.
    3. I don't need insurance, I don't go skiing, and it is old people who get cancer or heart attacks.
    4. I am young single and free, I'd rather spend my money on a motorcycle, a new car, woman, social life, etc.
    5. I haven't even started on my retirement fund yet, insurance can wait.

    Their actions are based on what they perceive, whether they are right or not.
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    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I'm really sorry I opened this can of worms everybody. Bob, that is an obscene oversimplification. I started to get into it, then I backed it all out because I said I wouldn't do it. But know that there are plenty of people that know better than your graph and you've insulted all of them with a nomination for the Darwin award. Pretty bad form.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

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  23. #58
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    You miss the point. It is the people who were not going to buy insurance in the first place. That applies especially to young adults, they all think they will live forever and are invulnerable.

    They face the decision to either buy new insurance or pay a penalty. No matter how mistaken they may be over the penalty amount, they perceive it as less than the insurance cost.

    You need not sell us on the cost of catastrophic illness versus the insured cost, people like me understand that, a week in the hospital will be at least $20,000.

    But some young 24 year old has priorities.
    1. Don't tell me what to do.
    2. I can game the system.
    3. I don't need insurance, I don't go skiing, and it is old people who get cancer or heart attacks.
    4. I am young single and free, I'd rather spend my money on a motorcycle, a new car, woman, social life, etc.
    5. I haven't even started on my retirement fund yet, insurance can wait.

    Their actions are based on what they perceive, whether they are right or not.
    Oh, I agree that you're spot-on Enzo. Young people think they are invulnerable and immortal. They make bad decisions because of it. That's human nature. The big question is who -- if anybody -- other than the individual who made the decision should have to bear the responsibility for an individual's decision making. Being a person who accepts responsibility for my own actions I would argue that the responsibility falls upon the individual and nobody else.

    The problem comes along when people who make bad decisions aren't willing to take responsibility for the decisions they make. They make their bed, but do they lay in it? No. when something goes wrong they expect a do-over, as if the bad outcomes that result from their bad decisions are somehow not their fault, and the expectation invariably follows that someone else should have to eat the bill for their bad decision making.

    Like it or not, that chart spells out the FACTS of how the subsidies are apportioned under Obamacare. The graph shows how much money the person in the instant case had to pay for thier health insurance, based on typing different income numbers into the official obamacare website's quote page. Don't get pissed off at me if you don't like the chart -- I didn't create the numbers, Congress did that. I only drew the plot of the obamacare numbers on a graph. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.


    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    So let's see: the Electronic Engineer who is supposedly the most qualified charges $100 and the tyros/self_appointed_Gurus/snake_oil_salesmen charge $250 to $800?
    Well, customers paying exhorbitant prices, presumably with some poor soldering thrown in for free, DESERVE it.
    Darwin at its best.
    I don´t feel sorry for them at all.
    What's the difference between the sucker that makes the bad decision to spend $800 on the mojo cap job and the guy who makes the bad decision not to buy health insurance when it costs $20 bucks a month? In both cases someone made a decision and they bought exactly what they wanted, or they decided not to buy something they didn't want. At least the guy who bought the $800 cap job at TGP didn't ask for a do-over when he found out that he overpaid.
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    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Your still missing some pieces and particulars, Bob, that broad stroke, spoon fed information on line doesn't reveal. I've tried to mention this subtly already and avoid turning this thread on everybody's behalf. But you have chosen to contend my amicability on two occasions now, so I'm going to ask you, before this get's heated, are you certain you want to discuss what you don't know about all this?
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

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  25. #60
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Chuck, I don't have a clue what it is you're talking about. Do you have a personal experience that holding back on?
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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    Absolutely yes. I really don't want any misgivings to happen here so I will outline a couple of things as yet unaddressed in your broad assessment. The nature of the plans and their coverage is allowed, to some degree, to be regionally designed by providers. Further, the median income that dictates who pays less and who pays more also changes regionally. Not the ACA subsidy, but the actual rate from the provider. So, for example, in New Mexico where an average yearly income would be around 43k there is much to be said for the ACA. But in the bay area California, where you literally need six figures to survive, your insurance expense went up AND your coverage went down. WAY down. I don't make six figures, but I make enough more than the median on your chart that my expenses went up to where I had to choose between coverage and food. And not only that, but WHAT was covered and the deductible and yearly max out of pocket made it a minimum yearly expense of some seven times what I was paying. That's just a taste. I'd rather this didn't go the wrong way so please trust me that as a service person on the west coast the ACA bordered on doom. I omitted my own insurance so that I could continue to cover my stepdaughter until she qualified for her own through an employer. Being self employed I didn't have that option. There's more to reveal something akin to typical but unfortunate circumstances as opposed to poor planning that have made things hard for many people I know. I expect there are other pocket demographics negatively affected as well. But if your a westie service person in or near a major city, and especially if your self employed, The ACA was a problem. Remember that the damn thing was claused to death and no where near what was originally intended. The big insurance and pharmaceutical companies had to get their bits in before they would let it pass. And they're not less than happy with the results I promise. So, As what amounts to a pariah (that is, I live off the leavings of a greater populous as a service man) My income is such that the ACA, and the subsequent changes to the available care per dollar, have put insurance out of my reach. Even at what many would consider to be a good living my income in my area defines me as the "working poor" There are a bunch of us that aren't you. And we don't appreciate being considered casualties of natural selection.
    bob p likes this.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

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  27. #62
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Sorry that I offended you Chuck. Sincerely.

    Do you mind if I ask -- what kind of penalties did you have to pay for not having coverage?
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  28. #63
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    Sorry that I offended you Chuck. Sincerely.

    Do you mind if I ask -- what kind of penalties did you have to pay for not having coverage?
    Well... I'll reveal at least that I've culled my stated income since moving to the PNW. I base it on my 1099's and excise. That being the case it's under a "G" for my penalty. I will say that even pegging my "annual income" at 45k the Silver plan would cost me $680 mo. (or was it $780?) In my region that means something like a $3200 deductible +20% for ALL thereafter (and co pays) with a max OOP of $7000. Only preventative is covered and all else must be paid toward the deductible. Are you f'ing kidding me!?! I don't remember other details as I've since tossed the note in the bin. That's literally catastrophic +20% on my part for $680 mo. If you had a broken leg you would pay the full OOP and just about cover it. If you had f'ing cancer that responsible 20% would eat you to the OOP. Only THEN does it make any sense. A joke is what it is.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "Shut up, you big dumb poopy-head!" Justin Thomas

  29. #64
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    My chart was from 2014. I think the rates were more reasonable then. I didn't buy on the exchange after that so I don't have later figures. It sounds like your premiums almost doubled compared to what was on my 2014 chart.

    I had heard a lot of stories about how the premiums skyrocketed in 2015, 16, 17 because some insurance companies started pulling out of markets to the point that there was no competition and with fewer players the remaining insurance companies squeezed the customers like a monopoly and prices ran skyward.

    Premiums like those you mentioned are a good example of why some people tried to argue against the individual mandate, instead allowing people to be self-insured if they bought a catastropic policy that kicked in to cover any expense over $10,000. I had considered that type of coverage, where I was responsible for the first $10,000 and nothing after that, but they wouldn't let me go that way. I had to qualify with "hardship" conditions to be allowed out of the individual mandate to buy a catastrophic policy. They forced me into the regular pool.

    From what it sounds like, in the later years you were being offered shitty coverage that was no better than a catastrophic policy, but you were being sold what was essentially nothing better than a catastropic policy disguised as a regular policy, at a higher rate than what a catastropic policy would have cost. Wow. Those insurance companies are real pieces of work. No matter how smart the lawmakers think they are, the insurance companies always find a loophole to slide through. They always win.
    Justin Thomas likes this.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  30. #65
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Yes, and unfortunately that was all that was offered in my area. I was told that would be the case too. By my doctor. Who admitted to me that she didn't have insurance because of the lousy coverage and the expense!
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "Shut up, you big dumb poopy-head!" Justin Thomas

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