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Thread: A different side to Afghanistan

  1. #1
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    A different side to Afghanistan

    For those interested in old magazines here's a surprising glimpse into the world of the elite in Afghanistan;

    A short history of Life: Afghanistan's lost magazine - BBC News
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    That article has some really wrong points, but let's start with the right links to the documents:
    This is the link to the Zhvandūn https://www.wdl.org/en/search/?colle...andun-magazine

    Thank there is a point that is a big error we are continuously doing with that area:
    Commercial advertisements disappeared with the Soviet invasion of 1979.
    In "west world", Soviets invaded Afghanistan, while USA and others are helping them to have a better life.
    For most of the people over there, it's just soldiers occupying their own country.
    Even the official communications we do worldwide, are written for western people, not for them.

    See what the article is saying: is showing photos of people similar to EU or USA people, then says that the Soviets invaded the country, then rised the Talibans and it's even worse. That's what we are supposed to know, to view and to understand. What Soviets media would tell about the same story? What local people can perceive about the same story?

    We have to stop to convince ourselves that we are doing the best for them (I don't argue if we are really doing or the final interest is another, that's over the knowledge that we can have), but we have to transmit to the people that we are helping them, otherwise they will see "our" troops as invaders the same way the Soviets were seen.

    Think about WW2: a perfect media work has been done to make italian people perceive Germans as bad invasors (and Italy was allied with Germany) and USA troops as the savers of the country. The same thing has to be done there, or everytime "we" will be perceived as invasors, and "we" will always be contrasted as invasors.
    But it's needed to talk their lenguage (I'm not talking about translations) to make it happen again.
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  3. #3
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Historical truth is that the *British* have been invading and occupying Afghanistan by military force since ***1839***
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

    followed in 1878 by
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Afghan_War
    where they were absorbed by the British Empire

    then in 1919
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Anglo-Afghan_War
    where they gained independence from the British Empire.
    By contrast, they were never ever part of the Russian Empire nor the Soviet Union.
    Commercial advertisements disappeared with the Soviet invasion of 1979.
    is nonsense.
    If anything, they disappeared under Taliban control .... the same Taliban which were trained, financed and backed by CIA

    Believe it or not (today it sounds impossible), Afghanistan enjoyed a *long* history of peace and progress.
    Its King for 40 years (8 November 1933 – 17 July 1973) was Zahir Shah, who was obviously accepted by Afghan people as one of their own so no major conflict, which permitted incredible:
    Zahir Shah continued his education in France where his father had served as a diplomatic envoy, studying at the Pasteur Institute and the University of Montpellier. When he returned to Afghanistan he helped his father and uncles restore order.
    After the end of the Second World War, Zahir Shah recognised the need for the modernisation of Afghanistan and recruited a number of foreign advisers to assist with the process. During this period Afghanistan's first modern university was founded.
    Zahir Shah was able to govern on his own during 1963 .... a new constitution was introduced during 1964 which made Afghanistan a modern democratic state by introducing free elections, a parliament, civil rights, women's rights and universal suffrage.


    So if the Empires had left him alone, that´s what Afghanistan would be today.
    BUT: a foreign backed coup threw him away, then his "replacement" was duly murdered 5 years later, and the violence ball started rolling.

    How are invading armies being treated? (Currently US and UK armies)
    Will they ever "succeed"?

    Well, this is how the first British invasion went, don´t think Afghans will treat later invaders any different:
    The First Anglo-Afghan War (also known as Disaster in Afghanistan) was fought between British imperial India and the Emirate of Afghanistan from 1839 to 1842. The war is notorious for the loss of 4,500 British and Indian soldiers, plus 12,000 of their camp followers, to Afghan tribal fighters, but the British defeated the Afghans in the concluding engagement
    which basically means: yes, the invading Army beats the Afghan Army and occupies the presidential palace in Kabul, installing a "friend" there.
    Ok, then they "win"?????
    Well, it looks like after 179 years Afghanistan isn´t exactly "tamed" ... while it had been doing quite well if left on its own.
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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    If anything, they disappeared under Taliban control .... the same Taliban which were trained, financed and backed by CIA
    This make come to my mind a picture I saw time ago: how we react at this strong message?
    1985-afghan-fighting-sovietinvasion-freedom-fighter-2015-afghan-fighting-usa-11692961.png
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    Mr Fahey has some vaild points. USA is wasting precious men and resources in a land that will consume any army trying to conquer it. IMHO it is the CIA and the money from the poppy fields that keeps us there.
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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    IMHO it is the CIA and the money from the poppy fields that keeps us there.
    The crop gets bigger every year, and not by any small margin. Gosh now we have a heroin epidemic "because the stuff is so cheap." Coincidence??? I don't think so.
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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    IMHO it is the CIA and the money from the poppy fields that keeps us there.
    The crop gets bigger every year, and not by any small margin. Gosh now we have a heroin epidemic "because the stuff is so cheap." Coincidence??? I don't think so.
    I was going to say that we have an epidemic of synthetic opioids rather than heroin (an opiate) but I see that is true mainly in California and Texas per the following article which also says that 3 out of 4 new heroin users got started on synthetic opioids. I guess with the state and federal govts cracking down on doctors over-prescribing the synthetic opioids more users have been turning to the streets since 2010. (In 2015 heroin accounted for 40% of the opioid deaths.)

    https://insight.livestories.com/s/v2...-efcde6c5b1e6/

    It looks like most of the illegal opioids are coming from China...

    Underground labs in China are devising potent new opiates faster than authorities can respond | Science | AAAS

    It does look like they are still using heroin to distribute fentanyl and its analogs by mixing it in...

    Steve A.

  8. #8
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    I was going to say that we have an epidemic of synthetic opioids rather than heroin (an opiate) but I see that is true mainly in California and Texas per the following article which also says that 3 out of 4 new heroin users got started on synthetic opioids. I guess with the state and federal govts cracking down on doctors over-prescribing the synthetic opioids more users have been turning to the streets since 2010. (In 2015 heroin accounted for 40% of the opioid deaths.)

    https://insight.livestories.com/s/v2...-efcde6c5b1e6/

    It looks like most of the illegal opioids are coming from China...

    Underground labs in China are devising potent new opiates faster than authorities can respond | Science | AAAS

    It does look like they are still using heroin to distribute fentanyl and its analogs by mixing it in...

    Steve A.
    In the Northeast we have every combination & permutation. Doctors won't prescribe, even when they're needed, medications with codeine or anything stronger because they're aware some patients will abuse or sell their pills. Everything from totally fake powders, so-called "bath salts", analogs of Russian Krokodil, the new rage Flakka, plus unpredictable mixtures which may contain fentanyl and the newer carfentanyl, they're all available. The police, rescue squads & fire departments are constantly responding to calls for Narcan, also calls to bring the coroner & pick up the corpse please. One local county reported 6 drug related deaths last week - that's upstate New York not the big city metropolitan area.

    You're a news hound Steve. Keep an ear on BBC for reports of the ever more bountiful Afghan opium crop. This stuff doesn't find its way into the USA news stream. Our news outfits are too busy concentrating on every tweet and foul emanation from you-know-who.

    And the latest craze defies explanation: young folks are eating Tide laundry "balls". These are pre measured quantities of concentrated laundry detergent. I know - it's not a drug, right? But WTF???? This can't possibly do anything but harm to their digestive system. For some, one is not enough - how many can you consume - oh lots - that makes you some sort of tough hombre' - actually dumb as a box of rocks. A couple years ago the kids were swallowing spoons full of powdered cinnamon, now this. What. Next.
    Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 02-04-2018 at 04:22 PM.
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  9. #9
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Poppy production is a big factor, of course, but there are also 2 more important geopoliticalfactors:
    1) it helps (together with Iraq and Turkey) to *surround* Iran with USA military bases.

    Just imagine USA surrounded by Soviet bases in Canada, Mexico and Cuba and you´ll get the feeling.

    2) Afghanistan separates the Russians from India (FWIW Pakistan is historical India, the artificial separation was created by the British Empire when leaving to leave a ticking bomb there).
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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    I was going to say that we have an epidemic of synthetic opioids rather than heroin (an opiate) but I see that is true mainly in California and Texas per the following article which also says that 3 out of 4 new heroin users got started on synthetic opioids.

    Steve A.
    They're called "gateway prescriptions" and they've made many people unbelievably wealthy, most notably the Sackler Family who sold Perdue Pharma (Oxycontin) for ~$14B after selling $35B of the poison. A check of the FEC site shows they give $$$ to every imaginable politician.

    More recently people get hooked on fentanyl from China sent via the mail.

    Afghanistan is the second poorest country in the world, just in front of Somalia, largely because multinationals have never been able to rap..."freely extract" its natural resources. Without poppies they'd starve, its the only thing they have that the west wants.
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  11. #11
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedmich View Post
    A check of the FEC site shows they give $$$ to every imaginable politician.
    Cash hell, we expect that, how many PILLS have Sackler/Perdue and their fiends, um, friends furnished to their political contacts, at federal and state levels? They sure behave like they're stonked on dope. Only the best though, it's OK, all prescription quality!

    Afghanistan is the second poorest country in the world, just in front of Somalia, largely because multinationals have never been able to rap..."freely extract" its natural resources. Without poppies they'd starve, its the only thing they have that the west wants.
    Only the money that's "on the books" is counted. I'm sure if off-the-books transactions were counted, Afghanistan would rise to, ummm, the third or fourth poorest country in the world at least. About 10 years back there was a news flash we seem to have forgot, mineral wealth beyond imagination in Afghanistan. At the time it was quoted as two trillion dollars worth. Strategic metals like copper and gold. And these days very important - lithium - needed for rechargeable batteries in everything from cell phones to electric cars to power storage. Now who's gonna benefit from all that mineral wealth, if ever Afghanistan puts down their AK47's and rocket launchers, and picks up some picks & shovels instead. Hint: not the USA. Who's close by, and needs all that stuff for their constantly expanding manufacturing base, and their billion and a half people soon to be 2 billion and more? China, that's who. So all this blood & guts & fortune we're putting into the effort, in the long run, is going to do what? Benefit Red China, that's what. Terrific.

    I'm so glad to be livin' in the USA! Somebody hand me a cheeseburger!
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  12. #12
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Benefit Red China, that's what.
    Well, that´s what USA has been doing since ... what? ..... 1972?





    Even more to the point, USA **created** Red China to begin with where there was none before, (talk about always shooting own foot) when they chose to fully help Mao´s Communist guerrillas in WW2 instead of Chiang Kai Shek´s National Chinese Army "because they were more efficient fighting the Japanese" .

    Chiang Kai Shek had to be happy with the second prize: Taiwan.
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    Juan Manuel Fahey

  13. #13
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Hey, the USA took second place in Viet Nam.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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