Shaw Paf

[NightWinder]

Opon taking the cover off this babby, It appears that he used Stainless Steel slugs as they are almost pure white in appearance....You guys have any thoughts??? Gauss is 436 Btw, A2 Most likely

[David Schwab]

They do have a weird powdery look to them. But it's not stainless, because I have one here I'm rewinding and the slugs are rusty.

I was wondering if they were A2's or not.

[Possum]

Mine are rusty as well, it kinda looks like they cheaped out and used 1018 there, the powdery look is most likely just oxidized nickel plate....

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by Possum

the powdery look is most likely just oxidized nickel plate....

Yes.. that makes sense. It looks oxidized.

[NightWinder]

Originally Posted by Possum

Mine are rusty as well, it kinda looks like they cheaped out and used 1018 there, the powdery look is most likely just oxidized nickel plate....

Ah Ha!! Sounds like someone swiped your poles - These don't have a drop of rust on them... the cover was on and Not a drop of wax!! I'm sure it would have rusted somewhat

[JGundry]

That magnet might be unoriented A5. In the Tim Shaw interview he says all of the PAF magnets he had tested were A2 and A5 and implies some of the A5 was unoriented. I just today tried out some of the mythical unoriented A5. I finally found a place that would do unoriented A5. It responded to a picked note like A2 but was brighter like A5. It's sounds very nice. It came charged at about the same level as A2. I charged it myself again to make sure it was saturated and after about 3 hours it was at about 580. Maybe it will back down to the sub 500 range in a couple days.

[NightWinder]

Originally Posted by JGundry

That magnet might be unoriented A5. In the Tim Shaw interview he says all of the PAF magnets he had tested were A2 and A5 and implies some of the A5 was unoriented. I just today tried out some of the mythical unoriented A5. I finally found a place that would do unoriented A5. It responded to a picked note like A2 but was brighter like A5. It's sounds very nice. It came charged at about the same level as A2. I charged it myself again to make sure it was saturated and after about 3 hours it was at about 580. Maybe it will back down to the sub 500 range in a couple days.

Actually, This one looks like They put it in a tumbler....Very soft edges??

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by NightWinder

Ah Ha!! Sounds like someone swiped your poles - These don't have a drop of rust on them... the cover was on and Not a drop of wax!! I'm sure it would have rusted somewhat

They didn't pot the pickups back then.

The Shaw from my '81 Standard had nice shiny metal parts. It had the cover still on it. This pickup here is also from 1981. This came out of one of my partner's guitars, so it wasn't tampered with.

The bottoms of the slugs are not rusty, but they do have that powdery look. They almost look like they are silver plated.

But what ever they are, they aren't stainless steel.

[NightWinder]

The bottom looks the same......as the tops

[NightWinder]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

They didn't pot the pickups back then.

The Shaw from my '81 Standard had nice shiny metal parts. It had the cover still on it. This pickup here is also from 1981. This came out of one of my partner's guitars, so it wasn't tampered with.

The bottoms of the slugs are not rusty, but they do have that powdery look. They almost look like they are silver plated.

But what ever they are, they aren't stainless steel.

What did that magnet look like??

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by NightWinder

Actually, This one looks like They put it in a tumbler....Very soft edges??

It not sand cast?

It should be a sand casted magnet with the two pole edges ground smooth, and the ends are still pebbly looking.

[NightWinder]

Thats Identical to mine...Lets see

[Possum]

No they are the original poles, its been uncovered for years and years. Only 1018 type steels will have cheap looking rust like mine does, the keeper is correct PAF metal just like the originals. In the article I have somewhere it says Shaw was forced to use alnico 2 because Gibson wouldn't pay for nonoriented alnico, nor would they pay for plain enamel wire. Obviously they didn't pay for the right alloy for the slugs either. You wouldn't believe the crap they are using in their burstbuckers, bottom dollar, lowest bid type of stuff

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by JGundry

That magnet might be unoriented A5. In the Tim Shaw interview he says all of the PAF magnets he had tested were A2 and A5 and implies some of the A5 was unoriented. I just today tried out some of the mythical unoriented A5. I finally found a place that would do unoriented A5. It responded to a picked note like A2 but was brighter like A5. It's sounds very nice. It came charged at about the same level as A2. I charged it myself again to make sure it was saturated and after about 3 hours it was at about 580. Maybe it will back down to the sub 500 range in a couple days.

That's right... he was saying they were un-oriented A5's.

Well there's another piece of the puzzle.

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by NightWinder

Thats Identical to mine...Lets see

My other pickup was nice and clean looking like yours.

[NightWinder]

Originally Posted by David Schwab

It not sand cast?

It should be a sand casted magnet with the two pole edges ground smooth, and the ends are still pebbly looking.

They are cast....They have been tumbled, I'm tellin' ya!!

[David Schwab]

Originally Posted by NightWinder

They are cast....They have been tumbled, I'm tellin' ya!!

Same magnet. I guess they do look tumbled. Or the sand casting can't do a sharp edge.

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by JGundry

I finally found a place that would do unoriented A5.

And the supplier is?

Would you consider selling a couple to a hobbiest?

[JGundry]

Originally Posted by PoorMan

And the supplier is?

Would you consider selling a couple to a hobbiest?

Oh boy. Not sure yet if I want to give away the supplier. In reality it is a piece of cake for any magnet maker to do unoriented A5 but very few will do it. I have not even placed an order yet. The magnets I got yesterday were sample magnets from the manufacturer.

[PoorMan]

Originally Posted by JGundry

Oh boy. Not sure yet if I want to give away the supplier. In reality it is a piece of cake for any magnet maker to do unoriented A5 but very few will do it. I have not even placed an order yet. The magnets I got yesterday were sample magnets from the manufacturer.

Fair enough. If you decide to share or are willing to sell a couple please PM me.

Thanks,
Dave

[belwar]

Can someone fill me in as to what exactly "un-ortiented" means? Even a brief description helps.

[JGundry]

Originally Posted by belwar

Can someone fill me in as to what exactly "un-ortiented" means? Even a brief description helps.

Oriented Alnico has the magnetic grains oriented in the direction of the poles for the magnet. So for a humbucker bar they would be oriented perpendicular to the pole faces on the long thin edge of the bar. This is done by exposing the magnets to a magnetic field for some part of the casting process to set the orientation. I don't know exactly when or how long but I believe it is done for a period of hours until the magnets have cooled sufficiently. Unoriented Alnico is not exposed to a magnetic filed during casting so as a result the magnetic grains are randomly oriented. A2 is unoriented. In terms of how they sound, in general terms I would say that oriented Alnico has a more focused sound when a note is picked and unoriented has a crunchier, sort of splashy sound when a note is picked.

I probably messed some part of this description up in terminology or process but I think more or less I'm in the ball park with the explanation.

[Joe Gwinn]

Originally Posted by JGundry

Oriented Alnico has the magnetic grains oriented in the direction of the poles for the magnet. So for a humbucker bar they would be oriented perpendicular to the pole faces on the long thin edge of the bar. This is done by exposing the magnets to a magnetic field for some part of the casting process to set the orientation. I don't know exactly when or how long but I believe it is done for a period of hours until the magnets have cooled sufficiently. Unoriented Alnico is not exposed to a magnetic filed during casting so as a result the magnetic grains are randomly oriented. A2 is unoriented.

Orientation results when the alnico alloy solidifies (freezes from molten) in the presence of a strong magnetic field, thus ensuring that all magnetic domains are aligned along that field. If no external orienting field, those domains end up pointing every which way.

Oriented materials must be magnetized in the direction of the original orienting field, or exactly opposite to that field. Unoriented materials don't care, but are weaker in all directions than oriented materials are in their preferred direction.

If one is planning to magnetize a bar magnet through one of its short dimensions, then either the bar has to have been cut from the oriented ingot such the the orientation is along this short dimension, or one must use unoriented alnico.