Rotary/Leslie effect for guitar

[louv]

Can anyone recommend a good stomp box to get a rotary/Leslie type sound for guitar?

Thanks

[Mark Hammer]

Depends whether you want a slow or a fast Leslie sound. There is a whole laundry list of reasons why anything less than an actual physical rotating speaker cab will simply not do, but that notwithstanding, faster is generally easier to mimic in a pedal than slow. Many phasers actually do a passable job, and some flangers can be coaxed into it.

Good emulation of slow Leslie generally requires a dual-amp setup to mimic the spatial swirl. A buddy of mine makes the Retro-Sonic pedals (which includes a nice CE-1 clone), and as much as Roland tried to nail a substitute for a Leslie when they first came out with the CE-1, when my buddy Tim came over and tried out a real rotating speaker for the first time, he became keenly aware of what ISN'T captured in a mono pedal, no matter how hard your try.

The ramp-up, ramp-down, is a signature aspect of rotating speakers, although it isn't necessarily something that everyone uses or knows how to use. So, while critical to "mood authenticity", it doesn't HAVE to be there to nail the tone.

I have a Line 6 Tone Core Roto Machine (now available in a cheaper Behringer clone package), and its a pretty nice pedal. Does ramp up/down nicely, and comes with 3 different cabinet models. The only things I don't like about it are the dual-pressure switch for bypass and speed-direction, and the fact that drive is not independent of level (you are obliged to have more volume if you want more grind). Other than that, when patched into two amps it nails my Vibratone cabinet pretty nicely. In mono, it is less impressive.

People like the Boss Rotary Simulator, but it's a bit more complicated. Some folks like the Destination Rotation a lot. Again, when people rave about this one and that, I never really hear from them regarding the manner in which they attempt to use the pedal.

[louv]

I guess the best way to do it is to buy and resell a few on ebay and keep the one you like best.

I've heard the two amp thing is much better but I'm just looking for a bit of that rotary/tremolo sound to spice my sound up occasionally.

thanks

[trevorus]

I use a V-Wah's Uni-Vibe setting. Not the best, but it works quite well.

[olddawg]

Check out an old Ibanez CS-9 anolog chorus.

[dobrocop]

boss rt-20 rotating speaker leslie effect,.this is written on the box,..lots of choic e in sound settings,slow n fast speeds,.saw a few on ebay lately,..dobrocop.

[TD_Madden]

H&K Rotosphere II....expensive, but EXCELLENT.

[rockinrendell]

i have the ROCKTRON VERTIGO but its more or less for trower type sounds but, it does have the fast/slow switch and it does ramp up and down. however, it isnt adjustible. which would be really cool. the slow to me is kind of fast and the fast is too fast. the fast works decent for the nirvana teen spirit song.

[coxster]

is a cheapo Danelectro Fab Chorus. No, it's not perfect, but I swear it's the best $17 I ever spent on a pedal, and I have used it for tremolo/vibrato, and chorus too.

Coxster

[Enzo]

I have a few Leslie mechanicsm in the warehouse. You guys are making me think about getting them oput and making something.

[cgiff]

I buit a leslie effect using an old ART sgx2000 express and the matching ultrafoot midi controller. The SGX2000 although digital sounding has a lot of powerful features. I used all 8 user controllable MIDI parameters and assigned them to one of the expression controllers on the ultrafoot. The effect is built around a flanger. all the following parameters are controlled by the 2nd foot controller.
Flanger and panner speed, EQ values.
On low speed I emphasize the lower frequencies to get the whump whump sound of the bass rotor as you speed up, the programmbale EQ changes to emphasize the treble rotor. The effect does ramp up and down by foot control, not automatically as some of the newer purpose built foot pedals. I run the effect in stereo and get a very good guitar friendly leslie effect. No substitute for the real McCoy but in someways, better for guitar, as you actually play the leslie speeds via the expression pedal to complement your playing.The new Leslie model built for guitar allows you to vary the speed with an expresion pedalas well, although the demos on You-tube do not demonstrate this ability very well IMO. The SGX2000 allows you to program the min and max values for all the selected parameters, The panner and flanger speeds are slightly offset at min and max which creates a phasing sound across the entire speed range. I had to add reverb to cover up the clicking sound generated by the expression pedal operation a side effect(no pun) of the digital nature of this box. Personally the SGX is too digital sounding for my tastes for reverb and digital delays but with all 8 midi-channels varying simultaneously this is a fat sounding effect. If you can pick one of these up on EBAY for cheap You can make a respectable sounding leslie effect .

[pez]

I've got a dls rotosim pedal. It has knobs for slow and fast speeds, ramp time, tweeter level and bass rotor level. Has stereo ins and outs and also has internal trim pots for input gain for each input, output gain for each output and a couple others to change way the two virtual rotors interact a bit. Onboard overdrive which is usable.

If you want to get that gradual change in speeds this pedal does it well. It sounds very cool stereo, unfortunately I don't have a stereo rig . It also has an expression pedal input to get real-time control of the speed which would be cool.

It took a fair amount of noodling with the internal trim pots, but I found a setting that yields spacey swirl but doesn't change the tone too dramatically when I turn it on. It blends nicely with the regular tone of my guitar is what I'm trying to say. It can totally overtake your dry sound and create dripping sloshy sounds too, I prefer the subtlety of the effect to add to my sound, not stomp on it.

It was quite a bit of $$ (close to 400 canadian) but still much less than a rotosphere and it takes up 1/3rd the room on my pedalboard. I'm quite happy. Except now I want to build a small rotating speaker cabinet! I'm always creating more work for myself!

Cheers

[Mark Hammer]

Picked up a cheap used EHX Small Clone the other day and modded it right away. When the delay range is shifted over a bit by changing the stock 150pf clock capacitor to around 85pf, it does a VERY respectable Leslie sim. I say this comparing it to my Vibratone and Line 6 Roto-Machine. I was pleasantly surprised.

[Steve A.]

Originally Posted by TD_Madden

H&K Rotosphere II....expensive, but EXCELLENT.

Agreed! With a 12AX7 tube in the preamp, and the way that you can switch speeds with the footswitches it is damned close to the real thing...

Some people wished that they could adjust the fast and slow speeds to taste, but it *is* an emulation of a Leslie rotating speaker, not a Univibe...

Now I just have to remember where I put the darned power supply.

Steve Ahola

[EffectsGuru]

A good effect for that in my opinion is the Dunlop/MXR UNIVIBE, and the price isn't bad either at $150.00. If you prefer to control the effect in a wah pedal which is kind of nice too, you could try their ROTOVIBE pedal (MXR/DUNLOP). Those are the only two that I would recommend that aren't really expensive boutique pedals.

[EffectsGuru]

Dunlop/MXR makes two pedals that I really dig, for a pedal they get pretty close and the price is reasonable as well... the Univibe ( which I believe Hendrix used) and the ROTOVIBE (the rotovibe is in a Wah housing so you control the speed your self). the Univibe goes for about $150.00, but I'm not sure how much the Rotovibe goes for off hand.

[Magnut]

I have the Rotovibe. It's nice and works well. It also has a chorus channel. I think they go for around $140 nowadays. If you slow the effect down at the same time you drop you whammy it sounds like a tape machine being turned off or slowing down. If your into that.

But overall it does work well. I don't like that you need to put the pedal all the way down to turn it on/off. I think an A/B switch before it would be the ticket.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DAVJH4S

[Mark Hammer]

Just a quick reminder that the original Uni-Vibe was made by Shin-Ei and called the "Resly-tone". Both it, and the Boss CE-1 were intended to provide an electronic emulation of a Leslie, though the Resly/Uni-Vibe came first. As for what seems like a cheap joke about Japanese accents, my sense is that someone simply mispronounced the name and someone else transliterated it and had the graphics printed up. It happens once in a while. I have a Japanese project book with a project for a "Franger". When you think of how many words/phrases from other languages are regularly butchered by Anglophones (e.g., "haute doge" becoming "hot dog"), there's no reason why Japan should be immune from the same silly mistakes.

[Thirstnhowl]

Hey,
I'm new here, I'm always interested in anything about leslie effects with guitar. I made a compact unit using all parts from home depot. I will be putting it up on ebay today. If what I've said so far doesn't get me kicked outta here I'll post a link to a video demo and pics. Thanks
T.H.3

[Mark Hammer]

There are a number of similar attempts and DIY projects posted around where people have provided different ways of creating a moving sound source. I look forward to seeing another one - many ways to accomplish the same task.

Post away.

[Thirstnhowl]

Originally Posted by Mark Hammer

There are a number of similar attempts and DIY projects posted around where people have provided different ways of creating a moving sound source. I look forward to seeing another one - many ways to accomplish the same task.

Post away.

Here tiz:
http://www.soundclick.com/spinorama09

[Diablo]

Originally Posted by EffectsGuru

Dunlop/MXR makes two pedals that I really dig, for a pedal they get pretty close and the price is reasonable as well... the Univibe ( which I believe Hendrix used) and the ROTOVIBE (the rotovibe is in a Wah housing so you control the speed your self). the Univibe goes for about $150.00, but I'm not sure how much the Rotovibe goes for off hand.

The pedal that Hendrix used was the Univibe by Shin-Ei. I bought one new, back around 1970 for what I thought was a high price...$150? About 6 months ago, I dug it out of a box, plugged it in and it still worked good as new. Then I checked ebay to see what they were going for. I sold mine in about 10 minutes with a buy it now price of $1550! Took that money and bought a Les Paul Faded....

[rockinrendell]

yea, theyre high dollar items these days. ive never played through one.

[Mark Hammer]

Nice. I like the variable speed aspect, although it would seem to not lend itself to ramp-up/ramp-down (unless there's something not shown). I gather there is one driver, similar to the old Vibra-Tones. What size did you use? Also curious about the baffle. Obviously something is spinning there, but from the video it's hard to see how the sound was distributed.

[Thirstnhowl]

Originally I had a modified sewing machine foot pedal that enabled me to hit any sweet spot and leave it there. I could also use it like a gas pedal to increase or decrease the speed, what I didn't like is how warm the thing (pedal) would get when I held the baffle at slow speeds.I use an on/off foot pedal now to go from fast to slow and back. The baffle is made of Styrofoam insulation, it looks like a 3 layer birthday cake with the center scooped out, the speaker fires up into it as it turns.

[Mark Hammer]

Well, then I applaud your diligence and ingenuity. Very nice. I'm sure the worst part of it was constructing the multi-part styrofoam baffle. Myself, I have a "cheese-wheel" Vibra-tone.

Okay, another question: How did you mount the axle and pulley arrangement for the baffle, or are we talking "direct drive"?

[Thirstnhowl]

It's direct drive, I had to make my own shaft coupling between the motor and baffle.

[redneckgeek]

I have a client who has (maybe foolishly) purchased a Fender/Leslie model 60 speaker system without any cables. (this would be a later version of the Fender Vibratrone {based on the Hammond Leslie Model 16}). I'm thinking we will have to build some. I thought I'd try to find some before starting the project ... anybody have knowledge of any?

[stratomaster]

EH Wiggler. Absolutely awesome. My drummer thought I brought a leslie to the gig the first time I used it (and this guy knows leslies). Good tremolo effects too. And if you get sick of it, you can use it as a volume boost (huge!)

-Tex

[jrfrond]

Originally Posted by Mark Hammer

Picked up a cheap used EHX Small Clone the other day and modded it right away. When the delay range is shifted over a bit by changing the stock 150pf clock capacitor to around 85pf, it does a VERY respectable Leslie sim. I say this comparing it to my Vibratone and Line 6 Roto-Machine. I was pleasantly surprised.

Phase 90's (new versions) can be modded for a quasi-Leslie effect as well. If you remove the global feedback resistor and back off on the FET bias trimpot to "cool" the effect", you can do the slow swirly thing. It's not perfect, because a true Leslie sim requires volume and Doppler (pitch) shifting, but it's close.

[Phostenix]

If you just want a simple & close approximation of a fast Leslie, the Arion SCH-1 is the best stompbox I've found. The SCH-Z is close, but not the same. The Z has a bass boost that colors the sound. Side-by-side, the 1 sounds more transparent. It's why the 1's still get more on ebay.

I have a Korg G4 sim that I love. I don't have any other sims to compare it to or a real Leslie, but I love the way it sounds. Slow or fast, in stereo it is amazing.

[cgiff]

I bought a Boss RT-20 about 5 months ago. It's connected in stereo into the EF86 side of a dc-30 clone and out / in of the parallel effect loop on a chieftain clone. I added an EQ on the input of the RT at about +10DB @ 600 and 1500hz (to boost the parallel effect), This enhances the the RT-20 's crossover point which makes it better for the guitar sound I'm looking for. The inertial effects of the rotor are very good, finger picking chords and timing the acceleration and deceleration really adds a nice dynamic dimension to your rythm playing. I A/B switch into the front end of the dc-30 (12ax7 side) and Chieftain so I can effectively bypass the rt-20 which does add color to the sound. The horn can sound nasily if driven hard. I went through quite a signal balancing act to blend this effect into my rig. The rotor is warm though, giving a great whump wump. I don't use this as a "cold shot" vibrato, more dynamically like a hammond player would, voicing chords and adding the leslie rotary nuances appropriately. I can see why some players don't like the pedal in front of their rig. I didn't either, however the hidden potential is there if you can dovetail it into your rig. I don't think the youtube videos do any of the leslie pedals justice. These are dynamic effects that need to be switched on and off appropriately with your foot as you play, not with a finger!

[Mark Hammer]

Few demo videos or soundclips will do justice to such pedals, largely because they really only come to life in stereo.

If one has ever used an actual Leslie or Vibra-tone, or even a Roland Revo, it is the stereo image movement that really makes the effect so compelling. If the electronic emulator of one's choosing has stereo outputs, you owe it to yourself to plug into two amps and let her rip. It,s really only at that point that you start to realize exactly how much different from a chorus pedal or Uni-Vibe these things really are.

[cgiff]

Mark agreed,
The RT-20 sounds great in Stereo. That's how I run it. What I meant was the demo's themselves don't demo the ramp function very well, or the rotor intertia which are the nuanaces these pedals are about and a leslie for that matter. This is not a leslie, it can't emulate the actual physical acoustic wash of true rotating hardware but it comes very close IMO. There is a lot of subtle nuances that happen during the acceleration and particulary decelration phase that is not captured in the You tube demos. Primarily by the way they are demonstrated I think this goes for all the various manufacturers,someone describing the operation of the pedal, playing a bit then stop playing to hit a switch with their finger. It's a stompbox, it is also a very dynamic effect that needs to be demonstrated while playing. Once my chops are a little more refined I'm going to do a response to likely the Pro guitar shop demo.
Cgiff

[Mark Hammer]

I'm in Ottawa. Next time we have one of these: Photos from the 2nd Ottawa Amp & Pedal Fest (and I mean LOTS of photos)... - GuitarsCanada.com - The Canadian Guitar Forum you should come up and join us. (I'm the guy with the beat-up tweed Princeton/Bassman, the overalls, and the mountain of pedals).