ESR Meter

Marina · 10-07-2008, 02:21 AM

Hello,
I was just wondering if anyone could reccomend where I could get an ESR meter at a good price, or even a kit that I could build. I really need one for work.
Thanks,
Marina

Enzo · 10-07-2008, 03:48 AM

What do you need it to do? What precision do you need? What conditions do the caps operate under? Are you characterising for match, comparing different vendors or doing maintenance and repair?

And what's a good price. $500 for a $1200 unit? Or just something under $100?

MCM sells this basic unit for $200.

Look for an older Sencore "Z-meter" in the LC series. I found a couple LC53 models on ebay like this one

In fact plug ESR Meter into ebay search and find a number of types.

Here is an interesting site for ESR meters:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm

Here is a simple project meter:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

Google ESR Meter for more hits than you'll know what to do with.

R.G. · 10-07-2008, 04:19 AM

I have the Dick Smith project kit one. I love it. It's exactly what is needed for debugging old tube amps.

jrfrond · 10-07-2008, 03:13 PM

Personally, I have found ESR meters to be rather useless, but that's just me.

Gtr_tech · 10-07-2008, 05:16 PM

The LC53 doesn't do ESR does it? At least it doesn't spec it in the cut sheet I found. Just says value, dielectric absorbtion, and leakage. I have a couple LC77s, and they do ESR. Just be sure an' do the lead short/open null cal first or it'll throw off the ESR readings.

JoeM · 10-07-2008, 11:34 PM

http://www.anatekcorp.com/testequipment/esrcompar.htm

Marina · 10-08-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo

What do you need it to do? What precision do you need? What conditions do the caps operate under? Are you characterising for match, comparing different vendors or doing maintenance and repair?

And what's a good price. $500 for a $1200 unit? Or just something under $100?

MCM sells this basic unit for $200.

Look for an older Sencore "Z-meter" in the LC series. I found a couple LC53 models on ebay like this one

In fact plug ESR Meter into ebay search and find a number of types.

Here is an interesting site for ESR meters:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm

Here is a simple project meter:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

Google ESR Meter for more hits than you'll know what to do with.

I'm in maintenance & repair. Not very sophisticated. Looking for something under $100. I'm used to using one that just has an analogue meter that will let you know if the cap is dried up. I wasn't aware there was much more. I need one of my own for my part time job.

Marina · 10-08-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrfrond

Personally, I have found ESR meters to be rather useless, but that's just me.

The ESR meter has been quite helpful to me on many occasions. However I can remember one instance when the ESR meter indicated the capacitor was good, but the ohm meter showed it only discharging in both directions. It was bad, and replacing it straightened out the problem in the circuit.

Marina · 10-08-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeM

http://www.anatekcorp.com/testequipment/esrcompar.htm

Thanks Joe, this is great! I think I'll get that Blue kit.

Enzo · 10-08-2008, 01:59 AM

Gtr, and Marina, if the LC53 didn't include ESR, I apologize. I know the later ones did, I assumed the 53 had it as well.

Personally I never saw the need for ESR readings. It was far more efficient to me to just replace suspect parts than to take the time to characterize them. And usually from circuit function we can tell if the parts are bad.

jrfrond · 10-08-2008, 04:21 AM

Exactly! This comes from experience.

Speaking for myself, and most likely for Enzo and other experienced techs here, I find that the older I get, the less paraphernalia I need to troubleshoot and repair most units.

Having said that, the meter that we have around "just in case" is a Wavetek LCR55. Sure, it has a great cap and inductor checker built in, but the handiest function is that it has a 20Ω setting that will read down to fractions of an ohm. This is handy when trying to find those .1uF decoupling caps that short on opamp rails. It eseentially lets you find the path of least resistance.

Enzo · 10-08-2008, 07:31 AM

Oh lord yes. You open up a 32 channel mixer with 15v rails loaded down, and there are at least a half dozen op amps per channel plus all the master section ones and each one has a little bypass cap across it and ONE of those is shorted. What a pain.

The most likely use I have for an L/C meter is for inductors. Crossover inductors come in even units like 3mHy, 4mHy etc. and we need a 3.6mHy coil. Buy a 4 and unwind part of it. watch with the L meter.

Gtr_tech · 10-08-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo

Gtr, and Marina, if the LC53 didn't include ESR, I apologize. I know the later ones did, I assumed the 53 had it as well.

Personally I never saw the need for ESR readings. It was far more efficient to me to just replace suspect parts than to take the time to characterize them. And usually from circuit function we can tell if the parts are bad.

It does help to check the ESR of output coupling caps in older stereo recievers/amplifiers that used that type of circuit. Caps that go high ESR there will dull high freq response. I have a couple customers who bring me old Marantz, Sansui, etc stuff and the lower powered ones are sometimes cap coupled output. Of course we don't see this in pro audio stuff.

jrfrond · 10-08-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo

Oh lord yes. You open up a 32 channel mixer with 15v rails loaded down, and there are at least a half dozen op amps per channel plus all the master section ones and each one has a little bypass cap across it and ONE of those is shorted. What a pain.

OR, you can use the technique I learned at Behringer in Germany. Smoke 'em out by bypassing the PSU regulators and feeding the opamp circuits raw B+. Most of the opamps will take +/-30V, so you won't harm them, but the shorted cap will just snap open in a little blaze of glory!!! Cool to watch. All of our house PSU's have regulator bypass switches installed. We'll also do this on the bench with open modules on a triple DC supply. I always say "Cook it 'til it dies!".

NickH · 10-08-2008, 11:51 PM

I am using a Peak Atlas ESR - Capacitor Analyser - Model ESR60

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr60.html

I am an utter muppet, so it really helped me to be able to check the caps in circuit quickly, I love the thing...

No doubt when you really know what you are doing they are less useful, but this one has saved me LOTS of soldering

Gtr_tech · 10-09-2008, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickH

I am using a Peak Atlas ESR - Capacitor Analyser - Model ESR60

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr60.html

I am an utter muppet, so it really helped me to be able to check the caps in circuit quickly, I love the thing...

No doubt when you really know what you are doing they are less useful, but this one has saved me LOTS of soldering

Well....if yer a muppet...which one are you

Sam the eagle?

olddawg · 10-09-2008, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrfrond

Personally, I have found ESR meters to be rather useless, but that's just me.

I dicked around with ESR meters for years, the expensive Sencores, etc. I was using them to identify dried out caps in camcorders. Ultimately the only true test I found was replacement of the caps. I have wasted too much time trying to verify a cap when just replacing them is a better option. Keep in mind I was testing dozens of caps at a time in circuit.

NickH · 10-09-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gtr_tech

Well....if yer a muppet...which one are you

Sam the eagle?

Beaker for sure !

Cheers

N

Marina · 10-31-2008, 01:55 AM

Got my blue meter & checked it out tonight. I opted for the preassembled & tested unit after all, & I'm very pleased with it. It's simple, straightforward, & has a chart on the front to assess what you're reading. Couldn't ask for more at the price. Thanks again, Joe!

jrfrond · 10-31-2008, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina

.....to asses what you'er reading.....

Who ya callin' "asses"???

Couldn't resist!

Marina · 10-31-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrfrond

Who ya callin' "asses"???

Couldn't resist!

Assess. Sorry!

JoeM · 10-31-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina

Got my blue meter & checked it out tonight. I opted for the preassembled & tested unit after all, & I'm very pleased with it. It's simple, straightforward, & has a chart on the front to assess what you're reading. Couldn't ask for more at the price. Thanks again, Joe!

I'm glad you found that info useful.

10-07-2008, 02:21 AM	#1
Marina Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Detroit MI Area Posts: 34	ESR Meter Hello, I was just wondering if anyone could reccomend where I could get an ESR meter at a good price, or even a kit that I could build. I really need one for work. Thanks, Marina

10-07-2008, 03:13 PM	#4
jrfrond Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oceanside, NY Posts: 719	Personally, I have found ESR meters to be rather useless, but that's just me. __________________ *John R. Frondelli* dBm Pro Audio Services, New York, NY

10-07-2008, 05:16 PM	#5
Gtr_tech Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Owosso, Mi Posts: 623	The LC53 doesn't do ESR does it? At least it doesn't spec it in the cut sheet I found. Just says value, dielectric absorbtion, and leakage. I have a couple LC77s, and they do ESR. Just be sure an' do the lead short/open null cal first or it'll throw off the ESR readings. __________________ The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

10-08-2008, 04:21 AM	#11
jrfrond Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oceanside, NY Posts: 719	Exactly! This comes from experience. Speaking for myself, and most likely for Enzo and other experienced techs here, I find that the older I get, the less paraphernalia I need to troubleshoot and repair most units. Having said that, the meter that we have around "just in case" is a Wavetek LCR55. Sure, it has a great cap and inductor checker built in, but the handiest function is that it has a 20Ω setting that will read down to fractions of an ohm. This is handy when trying to find those .1uF decoupling caps that short on opamp rails. It eseentially lets you find the path of least resistance. __________________ *John R. Frondelli* dBm Pro Audio Services, New York, NY

10-31-2008, 01:55 AM	#19
Marina Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Detroit MI Area Posts: 34	Got my blue meter & checked it out tonight. I opted for the preassembled & tested unit after all, & I'm very pleased with it. It's simple, straightforward, & has a chart on the front to assess what you're reading. Couldn't ask for more at the price. Thanks again, Joe! Last edited by Marina; 10-31-2008 at 02:55 AM. Reason: spelling

10-07-2008, 03:48 AM	#2
Enzo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lansing, Michigan, USA Posts: 10,366	What do you need it to do? What precision do you need? What conditions do the caps operate under? Are you characterising for match, comparing different vendors or doing maintenance and repair? And what's a good price. $500 for a $1200 unit? Or just something under $100? MCM sells this basic unit for $200. Look for an older Sencore "Z-meter" in the LC series. I found a couple LC53 models on ebay like this one In fact plug ESR Meter into ebay search and find a number of types. Here is an interesting site for ESR meters: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm Here is a simple project meter: http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html Google ESR Meter for more hits than you'll know what to do with.

10-07-2008, 04:19 AM	#3
R.G. Lifetime Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,050	I have the Dick Smith project kit one. I love it. It's exactly what is needed for debugging old tube amps.

10-07-2008, 11:34 PM	#6
JoeM Supporting Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So. Calif. Posts: 187	http://www.anatekcorp.com/testequipment/esrcompar.htm

10-08-2008, 01:59 AM	#10
Enzo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lansing, Michigan, USA Posts: 10,366	Gtr, and Marina, if the LC53 didn't include ESR, I apologize. I know the later ones did, I assumed the 53 had it as well. Personally I never saw the need for ESR readings. It was far more efficient to me to just replace suspect parts than to take the time to characterize them. And usually from circuit function we can tell if the parts are bad.

10-08-2008, 07:31 AM	#12
Enzo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lansing, Michigan, USA Posts: 10,366	Oh lord yes. You open up a 32 channel mixer with 15v rails loaded down, and there are at least a half dozen op amps per channel plus all the master section ones and each one has a little bypass cap across it and ONE of those is shorted. What a pain. The most likely use I have for an L/C meter is for inductors. Crossover inductors come in even units like 3mHy, 4mHy etc. and we need a 3.6mHy coil. Buy a 4 and unwind part of it. watch with the L meter.

10-08-2008, 11:51 PM	#15
NickH Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Henley On Thames (UK) Posts: 52	I am using a Peak Atlas ESR - Capacitor Analyser - Model ESR60 http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr60.html I am an utter muppet, so it really helped me to be able to check the caps in circuit quickly, I love the thing... No doubt when you really know what you are doing they are less useful, but this one has saved me LOTS of soldering

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