Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hide Glue for Tolex

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hide Glue for Tolex

    I'm thinking of using hide glue for re-tolexing a vintage amp -- not because I'm trying for vintage-correctness, but because I'm chemically-sensitive to the solvents in contact cements. To use them, I have to be outdoors or in an area ventilated by a high-powered fan and use a respirator mask with organic vapor cartridges or I'll end up feeling like I'm coming down with the flu for a couple of days. Then, I have to store anything done with contact cement in an attic or some other outdoor shelter for a few days until it's done outgassing. When you add up all that trouble, having to heat hide glue starts to look easy. Organic vapor cartridges are not cheap.

    Any tips for tolexing a cabinet with hide glue? I read that you have to work quickly to avoid having it set up on you. Do you apply it to the tolex, the wood, or both?

  • #2
    see this post
    tolex/adhesive frustration
    and associated discussion. Hide should work ok but is tricky compared to some "green" water based contact cements also mentioned.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rhodesplyr View Post
      I'm thinking of using hide glue for re-tolexing a vintage amp -- not because I'm trying for vintage-correctness, but because I'm chemically-sensitive to the solvents in contact cements. To use them, I have to be outdoors or in an area ventilated by a high-powered fan and use a respirator mask with organic vapor cartridges or I'll end up feeling like I'm coming down with the flu for a couple of days. Then, I have to store anything done with contact cement in an attic or some other outdoor shelter for a few days until it's done outgassing. When you add up all that trouble, having to heat hide glue starts to look easy. Organic vapor cartridges are not cheap.

      Any tips for tolexing a cabinet with hide glue? I read that you have to work quickly to avoid having it set up on you. Do you apply it to the tolex, the wood, or both?
      YouŽll go crazy with hide glue because they require a lot of hardware to work with.
      Fender used a hot table on which he could brush glue on Tweed or Tolex without hurry, it started cooling only when lifted and applied to cabinet.
      And even so he split Tolex (or Tweed) into 4 pieces so he coukd fully apply one while others were still warm.

      And Acoustic (where I learnt yhen Technique) and most others (up to and including Mesa Boogie) used the wonderful Potdevin hot glue spreaders , IŽll post a video.
      Problem is they cost quite a fef thousand dollars.
      No big deal for any Factory (or even the US Post service which use them to apply lickable glue to stamps) but impractical to small users:
      Juan Manuel Fahey

      Comment


      • #4
        Great video. Thanks for posting it.

        I never knew that Mesa used a huge die and a roller press to cut the tolex to pattern. They sure waste a lot of material.
        I also like the glue application machine that uses a wet roller.

        I hadn't realized that the Mesa cabs use a single piece of tolex that results in a single seam on the bottom of the cab, where the old Fender cabs would use two pices of tolex that resulted in 2 seams. I wish the cameraman would have done a better job showing how they trimmed the seams on the cabinet. He really dropped the ball on that part of the video.

        This video reminds me of why I avoid re-tolexing. And why I won't pay very much for a cab that needs to be re-tolexed.
        "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

        "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bob p View Post
          ...the old Fender cabs would use two pices of tolex that resulted in 2 seams...
          Bob,
          That would be four pieces and four overlaping seems for an old Fender.
          Cheers,
          Tom

          Comment


          • #6
            I must be remembering things wrong, Tom. I remember the Fenders using a single piece of tolex on the bottom, and a second piece that wrapped around the bottom edge, up one side, across the top, down the other side, and around the other bottom edge, to create two seams. Am I remembering it wrong? As you can tell, I avoid doing this sort of thing.
            "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

            "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

            Comment


            • #7
              I guess I'd better go take another look at my Fender amps.

              From casey4s' old drawings:

              http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/img/tolex10.jpg
              "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

              "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

              Comment


              • #8
                I appreciate the warnings.

                Maybe I'll try Mojotone's water-based contact cement and see how that works.

                Comment


                • #9
                  AES/CED also sells tolex adhesive by the gallon. I don't know how it compares to the Mojo product, I've never used either one.
                  "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                  "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rhodesplyr View Post
                    I appreciate the warnings.

                    Maybe I'll try Mojotone's water-based contact cement and see how that works.
                    Cool. Try it first: join, round and sand 2 pieces of wood, youŽll have 2 corners which is the hard part, and you can try seams on the flat sides.

                    I have not had luck with water based contact cement, so itŽs the solven type for me, buy kept reading and I think I pplied too little.
                    I should have applied more, or let dry and apply a second layer (on each side), the key seems to be that surface should look somewhat shiny, glue shpuld be "visible" even when dry.
                    If it looks like "thereŽs nothing there" ... probably thereŽs not enough.

                    Even simpler: try plam sized bits of Tolex testing different techniques, and once youŽre in the ballpark, test the full rounded corner, seams, etc.
                    Juan Manuel Fahey

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I tried the water based adhesive, but like Juan, had poor luck, ended up peeling the tolex off, and applying it wet. That worked, but I had to keep smoothing the wrinkles out until it dried. I finished the rest of the cab with contact cement!
                      I realize you have problems with the solvent based stuff, but the method I have settled on is applying DAP to the wood, and then spraying 3M 77 on the tolex. I think I wasn't getting the tolex covered completely when brushing the adhesive on it, and would sometimes get "bubbles" where it didn't adhere.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        3M 77 -- does that stuff give you any working time or is it a one-shot deal?
                        "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                        "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I learned how to cover cabinets from Conrad Sundholm, of Sunn fame. He used and still uses hide glue. It doesn't give a lot of time to work with it before it hardens, but you just need to make sure your pieces are cut properly and you are ready to lay it down. Use a roller and do smaller areas at a time and save the corners until last and it works great. Prior to learning from Conrad I used contact cement and the 3M spray stuff. I had by far the best results with hide glue. YMMV.

                          Greg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            bob p, my method leaves only a few minutes after contact, before it gets really difficult to separate. I use strips of tape to ensure that the piece I am installing is correctly orientated. (Most important when using different colors of tolex!)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              thanks. which DAP product goes on the wood?
                              "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                              "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X