Fender Performer 1000 problems

[jimdangle]

my performer 1000 100w head has an issue. the second knob from the left (which controls the treble on the cleans) must be turned up to 9 or 10 (out of 10) in order for the amp to produce any sound when on the clean setting. I don't want to have to always use so much treble. Any ideas or parts you think I need to fix it and what needs to be done?

Ball up your fist and whack the top of the amp when it does it next time. Does this have any effect? If so, there is a loose connection somewhere.

if i whack the amp it does seem to help it return from no sound to having volume, but only if the treble know is up to 9is....i don't think whacking helps return sound if the treble knob isn't jacked up that high, please suggest a fix


Thanks,

[Lee_ranaldo]

what i always do is to measure the voltages from the power supply

that means

transformer without load (AC voltage)
then after the rectifier.. (supply rails)
then the regulator for the OP-amps if there is any op-amp (most fenders does have op-amps as pre-amps)

After that following the schematic i use the audio probe to check with an audio source or signal generator which stage is making problems (like generatin distortion, clipping, etc).

IF the amp has an effects loop i just plug any audio source that has a volume control into the "return or power amp in" jack to test if the output stage is working correctly

then i do the opposite connecting the "pre-amp out or send" from the effects loop into a test power amp. It can be any audio device that has a aux/line in input. just in case i have a lead with another coupling cap just in case the output is messed up.



It's handy to have the schematic and tagging the stages u've already checked.. (believe me it's helpful to print that thing and write all the notes there..).

I must suspect a bias transistor problem or diodes attached to the heatsink that are used to control the output stage transistors.

Another posibility is a bad regulator for the op-amps. Op-amps needs a symetric power supply . if one of the suppy rails fails the sound will clip assymetrically or sounds like a gating effect.

Get the schematic so it's easier to guide u.

in the other case i'd suspect of a bad op-amp , since u have to set all the controls way up to get a sound. That means either a faulty op-amp after the tone stack o a cold solder in the tone stack

[Enzo]

The amp works with the treble maxed. Lower the treble control and the signal disappears. That sure sounds to me like an open or otherwise defective treble control.

[jimdangle]

Fender Performer 1000 crackling issue

Hi,


I have a Performer 1000 guitar amp by Fender (it is my understanding that the Roc Pro 1000 by Fender is just a rebranded version of the Performer 1000, there is a 650 version too, the following schematic is dated as early 1990's and they didn't even sell the Roc Pro till late 1990's, I believe):


http://www.fender.com/support/amp_sc...ematic_B12.pdf

This amp head is a hybrid. I have ve a 412 fender cabinet that says it is “stereo ready” but I have eliminated the cabinet as a cause because I get the crackling when I go from the line out in the back of the head to my audio interface, when no speaker is plugged in. I am not sure exactly what being a hybrid means (for instance, when on the clean setting, does the tube preamp come into play at all, or is that only a consideration when on the yellow gain setting- I believe the red gain is solid state)?


Fender Roc Pro 1000 User's Manual


also, here is the longer Reference and Owner's Manual:

Fender Roc Pro 1000 Head: Harmony Central User Reviews



That manual says the head comes with:

A choice of two pre-amplifiers in the drive channel,

using a 12AX7 / ECC83 tube for its well known warmth

of tone.

• 100 watts of power.


I took out the original 12AX7 tube and replaced it with a new and compatible Sovtek 12ax7 tube. When I removed the original tube and then tried to amp with no tube in the socket, the crackling sound was still present on the clean setting, as well as on both distortion settings...(i am not sure how the yellow gain setting could work without a tube in the preamp's socket?). I used dexoit's DN5 and GN5 on most all of the board inside the amp. The pots seem to have a little hole on top of them that would allow for the Deoxit to get inside. I sprayed into that. I also tried to spray up into the pots from where the 3 tracers connect to the board, but am not sure I hit the right angle. I guess I could try to get some of the Deoxit to pile up in a bowl and then drip it into the pots when they are upside down....). The dexoit didn't seem to fix anything.


This amp has an Fx loop. I tried pluggin a cord into the in and out of the Fx loop to see if that fixed the problems that can occur with a bad connection in the bypass part of the effect loops. No improvement.


I inspected the top of the board. I have yet to try to inspect the bottom of the board (where I believe the solder joints reside) because I am afraid of electricity type safety hazards, even when the amp is unplugged because I read that the amp can retain a powerful charge even when unplugged for quite some time. To look under the board at the solder points (which I believe is how one fixes “cold solder” joint problems, which can be associated with crackling) I think I would need to unscrew about 6 screws on the board. I don't know if I should disconnect the transformer or what before doing that and whether doing so would be insufficient to ensure proper safety.




I have one electric guitar, a Fender Strat '94, american made....Could it be my guitar causing the crackling? The crackling seems like it might be related to right when I hit a chord on the guitar...but it occurs with single notes too...It seems like maybe the crackling occurs right after the strings are struck, but I am not sure it wouldn't occur during in the middle of a sustained note... However, when I unplug my guitar from the amp and tap on the amp it seems like the crackle is still there, so that would seem to indicate it is not the guitar. I also wonder if the input jack on the amp could be the problem? I believe I have had some issues with it in the past and the lip of it seems like the bottom might have chipped a little, but it still holds a ¼ jack pretty snug. The jack makes a cracking sound when I take it out while the amp is on, but I am not sure that is anything abnormal...


The manual says the head, in the back, has a “4. LINE OUT - This jack provides a signal output suitable

for connection to recording and sound reinforcement

equipment. Using a 3-conductor stereo cord will provide

a quasi-balanced signal and a 2-conductor mono

cord will provide an unbalanced signal.


When hooking up this line out to my audio interface, the signal will be distorted (ie on a gain setting) if the amp is on a gain setting. This presents a problem. I want to record a clean tone either direct to my interface or routed through the amp to the interface while at the same time recording with a mic to the cabinent a distorted tone. Recording a clean signal allows for flexibility later with amp modelers/simulators, etc... However, the line out on this head will not seem to output a clean tone if the amp is on a distorted channel? Is there some way to get both at the same time with only one head and one cabinet? One workaround I have used is to buy a Y-cable female mono 1/4” to two male mono 1/4” splitter, YPP-111 by livewire (that brings up another question, if I plug a 1/4” guitar cord from my guitar into the female end on this splitter, then go out to the interface with one of the males and to the amp with the other, does this splitter need to be guitar cable, patch cable, speaker cable, etc? It would seem like it could cause a bottleneck type problem if its the wrong type of cable used in the splitter?).


The manual also shows an inpute for “5. SEND - Connect cord to external equipment at this

output jack. This unbalanced jack provides a prereverb

signal output from the preamp and may be used

to drive effects units in an effects loop, to drive additional

amplifiers in a multi-amp set up or as a preamp

send to a mixing console.”


So maybe I should go from the send in the effects loop straight to my audio interface? Would that be a fix for the problem of recording both a clean track and a distorted track at once? The manual says the send provides a prereverb signal, but doesn't seem to say if it is pre gain setting too.


Okay, I tried it an can confirm that both the send out and the line out in the back are “post gain setting” in other words, it doesn't seem possible to get a clean out from the amp while micing a distorted out at the same time? Any insight? Even if one of those outputs did work for my purposes, do you know if a speaker cable, patch cable, or guitar/insturment cable should be used to go out to the audio interface from either the line out or the send jack?


Some reviews of this amp:

Fender Roc Pro 1000 Head: Harmony Central User Reviews


Any help or suggestions (besides take it to a repairman) would be appreciated).


Sincerley,


Me

[Phostenix]

Dear Me,

Do you know what the word "pithy" means?

Somewhere between "My amp doesn't work. Anybody know why?" and the novel you wrote is the goal. I'm sure lots of others looked at your post (as I did) & said to themselves, "wow, I'll try to get back to that later."

So, when you tap or bang on the amp with no guitar plugged in, it crackles?

I didn't have time to look at the schematic (see above) - is this a head or combo?

[Phostenix]

To be clear, the crackle happens along with the audio peaks? When you had the 12AX7 removed, how did you test for crackle?

It's a "hybrid" because it contains both solid state and tube. It looks like the 12AX7 is used for both the Red & Yellow drive channels. It's an odd setup. It looks to me like the 2 halves of the tube are just being used as diode clippers. The tube guys here would be a better jugde of that than I.

Do you have any other amps that you could plug a patch cord from the effects Send of this amp to the effects Return or Power Amp Input of another?

[jimdangle]

thank You

thanks to everybody for your help.

it crackled with the tube out just playing it, and even when turning the controls

I took pictures and heres more info.

Short story, i soldered the bottom of the board where cr 56 and cr57 seemed to have week solder points, i plugged amp in and it was working pretty sweet for about 20 seconds, then some smoke from the cr 57 ish area and amp went out. the fuse or thermal breaker had blown, but no burn marks appeared near the cr 57 ish area. I wondered if there was a problem due to my not screwing back in all the screws i took out to look at the bottom of the board. so i screwed them back in and now have to go buy another 4a 250v fuse.

no idea what the light smoke was and if i ruined the amp, but the fuse is split and it wasn't before.


sorry to write so much, but we aren't getting charged for paper:


need parts for my audio interface and for my fender amp as detailed below:
I need some parts, but am not sure which.*

I think I want to mod r172 and r172 (as detailed below) in my fender performer 1000 to use a 240 ohm value

also cr56 and cr57 run too hot and looked kind of burned.* I hear these two 5 Watt Zener's run at a stupid temp (burn finger in less than a second)...should I just get the same zeners for replacement or is their a modification?

cr 56 and cr 57:* 028119 DIODE ZENER 1N5353B 5W 16V 5% CR56,57


The other parts that I see ass looking burned out are:
r118:* 026493 RES CF 1/2W 2.7K 5% R118,155

r119:* 028021 RES FILM 2W 470Ω 5% R119

as for r172, and r173:* 041276 RES WW BT 10W 100Ω 10% R172,173

the tech notes I pasted below indicate that increasing r172 and r173's ohm rating to 240 ohms up from 100 ohms (that is what the schematic says, but the board shows 120ohms) would help, especially with the cooling of the diode zeners cr56 and cr57...* Do you have something with that spec?

also, what are some big common things that one should replace in a 100w head like this that is about 14 years old?* Should I replace the two big black cylinders:* 031756 CAP AE 4700µF 50V 20% C71,72 ?

lastly, it appears I recently blew the thermal breaker (which to me looks like a fuse).* 031910 BREAKER THERMAL 15A 155/195DEG TH1* the sticker by it on the board says 4av 250v.*

Thank you very much for your help in identifying what to buy, please let me know what you have available and or suggest

Other parts I need:
The audio interface I have is an emu 1820 doesn't have the mastering grade converters of the 1820M, which also has a bit better op amps....so I am interested in frankensteining in the better bits into my cheaper 1820....

I have an emu 1820 audio interface which has as converters and preamps the following:

1820 Crystal CS4392 AD BB PCM1804 OPA N5532

I want to modify the 1820 so it has at least as good converters and preamp as the mastering grade 1820M (or even better quality parts of you have recomendations).*
1820M* has Crystal CS4398 AD AKM AK5394 OPA JRC2068

EMU 1820 to 1820 M - Is it possible? :

Topic: EMU 1820 to 1820 M - Is it possible?



I have an EMU 1820 audio interface witch is very good by the way, but the the 1820 M is better.

Is it possible to convert/mod the 1820 to the 1820M?


EMU 1820 to 1820 M - Is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2007, 11:56:01 am »
The 1820 uses the BB PCM1804 converter, CS4392 D/A and N5532 OP Amps.

The 1820M uses the AKM AK5394, CS4398, JRC2068 .
Would this change be possible?

EMU 1820 to 1820 M - Is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2007, 12:03:55 pm »
possibly change the opamps but I don't honestly think you will get much difference from changing the AD/DA parts.
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Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem




WWW
EMU 1820 to 1820 M - Is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2007, 10:10:00 pm »
the TI PCM1804 is not pin for pin compatible wiht the AK5394A.

My suggestion would be to save up, get a PCM4222 EVM from TI and put it in a case with a power supply. Then bring in the signal over S/PDIF into your creative box.

That'd give you 123dB easily.



PCM4202
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 04:56:44 pm »
I already wrote luis, but I had the same questions. Obviously EMU was not willing to give up the schematics. SO, I did the next best thing.

Did some research, found the TI PCM4202. SNR 118dB.... Pin for pin is the same as the 1804 but with some slight differences, I guess a different voltage reference.

I had a EMU 1212m I picked up the EMU 1820 audio dock alone for $20 for the increased number of inputs and the monitoring options. I was disappointed in the sound quality compared to the 1212m, which has the AKM A/D and the better D/A on the daughter card.

Anyway, I did the swap, sounds good, I am noticing a certain clarity with the 4202 that just wasn't there with the 1804. The recording I have done with the 4202 installed sounds much more like the recording I was doing with the 1212m.

Also, any 1820m users that also have the 0202 daughter card? Are the drivers the only thing holding us back from using both to give 10 inputs and 2 more excellent outputs?


KVR :: View topic - Quality difference between converters in Emu 1820M & 182
E-MU 1820 Digital Audio System
PC Soundcard experiences with Tripath amp - diyAudio

[Phostenix]

You may not be getting charged for paper, but you also aren't getting charged for people's time. You will get more help on tech forums if you are concise & focused.

If there was smoke, something is going to need replacing. Are you sure that nothing is shorted after you touched up the solder joints? You're now going to have to get this amp back to a working condition before you can find the crackle issue.

You say R118 & R119 look burned out. Does that mean they are dark in color or look burned and/or blackened? Is the speaker output shorted?

Can you take any pics of the components in question?

What kind of tools & electronics skills do you have?


You should open a different thread for your Emu questions, but let me just ask if those units are full of surface mount components like I would guess they are. Have you ever worked on surface mount stuff?

[jimdangle]

hI guys, thanks so much for responding, its awesome.

fender performer 1000 head board - a set on Flickr
see this link for zoomable pics of the entire circuit board

i've got literally no experience with electrical stuff, but I bought a soldering iron. I think when I tried to touch up a colder solder near cr56 (one of the problematic diode zeners these amps are known for) that I formed a solder bridge and maybe that cause the smoke and the 3 blown fuses I have subsequently expereince. I tried to desolder the bridge using the copper looking stuff in coaxial cable because the flux I bought from radio shack didn't seem like the flux i saw on a youtube video for removing solder bridges (maybe I got confused there).

I hear you about being more concise and new forums, etc...I try harder.

I did post some really detailed pictures at flicker

fender performer 1000 head board - a set on Flickr

okay so, I think I removed the solder bridge, put a new fuse in and twice it blew the fuse within a second or two. To recap, I originally touched up one or the cold solder looking points on the board. one seemed sloppy and formed a solder bridge. i tested the amp like this, turning it on. It played and sound good for 20 seconds, then started a light smoke rising from it, then the fuse blew....i attempted to desolder the bridge, replaced fuse, and fuses blew twice within a second. The board did seem to develope a few new reddish heat marks on top following the smoking incident.

I hope I haven't ruined it or caused severed damage....Any insight into that?

Any insight into amp techs? It just seems like for a head like this that would have trouble getting $200 on ebay (harder for me because I did not meticulously care for its appearance) that going to an amp tech blindly could likely result in $200 of repairs that may or may not fix the issues. I have emailed many techs and the fender certified ones seem to have access to technical notes that concern the 5w 16v zener diodes that overheat and some modification for that.

lso cr56 and cr57 run too hot and looked kind of burned.* I hear these two 5 Watt Zener's run at a stupid temp (burn finger in less than a second)...should I just get the same zeners for replacement or is their a modification?

cr 56 and cr 57:* 028119 DIODE ZENER 1N5353B 5W 16V 5% CR56,57



The other parts that I see as looking burned out are:
r118:* 026493 RES CF 1/2W 2.7K 5%

r119:* 028021 RES FILM 2W 470Ω 5%

as for r172, and r173:* 041276 RES WW BT 10W 100Ω 10% R172,173

r188 and r 1198 are right by r172 and r 172. apparently r172 and r 172 help to keep r118 and r119 cool? or am I confused and its something near cr56 helping to cool?

the tech notes I pasted below indicate that increasing r172 and r173's ohm rating to 240 ohms up from 100 ohms (that is what the schematic says, but the board shows 120ohms) would help, especially with the cooling of the diode zeners cr56 and cr57...* Do you have something with that spec?

also, what are some big common things that one should replace in a 100w head like this that is about 14 years old?* Should I replace the two big black cylinders:* 031756 CAP AE 4700µF 50V 20% C71,72 ?



i uploaded some post- circuit board smoking blowing fuses incident pictures for a before and after look at fender performer 1000 head board - a set on Flickr

I wonder, is this something one could sue fender for for damages as a design error or something? there is a 5 year warranty from fender for electrical parts. would that be a nuisance suit? choice of forum state purchased in?

on a random tangent, what is hi-z? is there a standard like 1 mohm. so many interface manufactuers say their inputs are mic/lin/instrument and hi-z when they only have a 330 kohm impdedance? lawsuit for false advertising?

Peace,

[jimdangle]

thanks Phostenix

I do not have hardly any electrical/soldering skill

I have not worked on surface mount stuff i don't think, not sure what that is. Some very good pictures of the guts of the emu 1820 can be found here:

E-MU 1820 Digital Audio System

there is apparently a thing where either the 1820's da ad or op amp uses 14 pins, but the one used for the better 1820 is 28 pins but the 1820 might have a spot for the 28 pin one if one removes the 14 pin thing....

suggestions for good converters or op amps to upgrade to are appreciated. some people seem to favor uses the spdif with something like the pcmXXXX evm as an alternative. i don't know much about that...

[52 Bill]

R118 and R119 are part of the output stage and have nothing at all to do with the zener supplies.

I would guess that you now have a shorted output transistor and have a dc voltage on the output of the power amp. This may have happened when you were testing the earlier repair and left the heatsink unmounted. Until this problem is sorted out, you will continue to blow fuses.

I would strongly suggest that if you really want this amp repaired either take it in to a qualified repair person, or start to take some of the advice that has been given to you here and only perform the actions that have been recommended to you.

[Phostenix]

I wonder, is this something one could sue fender for for damages as a design error or something? there is a 5 year warranty from fender for electrical parts. would that be a nuisance suit? choice of forum state purchased in?

on a random tangent, what is hi-z? is there a standard like 1 mohm. so many interface manufactuers say their inputs are mic/lin/instrument and hi-z when they only have a 330 kohm impdedance? lawsuit for false advertising?

Peace,

Dude, you're something else. So, if you electrocute yourself working on this amp, will you sue us, too?! I agree with Bill, have this repaired by someone more familiar with power supply repairs.

Hi-Z is typically anything over about 10Kohms.

[Phostenix]

I have not worked on surface mount stuff i don't think, not sure what that is.

Surface mount parts are soldered to the top (the surface) of the board - they don't have legs that go through the board. They are much smaller than "regular" parts & much harder to solder & de-solder. If you are just starting to solder, there is little chance that you could successfully remove & replace chips on that board. The better one is $100 more? I'd just spend the extra money, if it were me.