Holy Grail moment

[SoulFetish]

Yes -- nobody expects a 49 Mercury to have original bias ply tires. But if you take that Merc to a car show and have it judged for original condition, the judges will start with 1000 points and they'll subtract points for things like radial tires instead of reproduction bias ply tires, and modern radiator hoses instead of period-correct corrugated radiator hoses. Nobody expects an old car to have it's original tires, but the tires have to be period appropriate if you're being judged in an unmodified class.

I have plenty of vintage amps that have 60 year old caps in them. If they continue to function up to spec I'm also inclined to leave them alone. Just like with a car, it's only original once.

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hc...s/2960931.html

It's interesting that in the classic car world, unrestored original cars often bring more than full restorations.

I'm with you on this, Bob.
The car market is much more liberal on restoration than the musical instrument word. Re-finishing a guitar will kill it's vintage value, cutting it at least in half last time I cared to check.

[Chuck H]

That's always bugged me too. Who want's to look at an old, checked, flaky gold top LP? They're ugly enough when they're new If anyone has measured the resonant difference between an original finish and catalyzed polyester I'd be interested in the result. These aren't Stradivarius violins with a hand shaved, tuned soundboard. These are freaking blocks of wood. They should at least be pretty blocks of wood.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Thermodynamics tells us that's an endothermic proposition, and eventually it will fail.

The way it was 'splained to me, on a cold snowy morning like this one, in a college classroom 120 miles from here, "it takes an input of energy to maintain or improve organization in a system. Without that, things become disorganized over time, and we call that entropy." Doing maintenance, that's an energy input. And by that the system organization is maintained. In the words of another sage "rust never sleeps," a phrase I use all the time.

And you get a "like" for that long lecture on road case foam, whew! I can tell you from experience, all to often touring & recording gear gets stored in road cases, left unopened for 3 years or more. Even though the cushioning foam may still look and act OK, it leaves a gummy deposit on all surfaces, Tolex & metal & everything else. First day at a rehearsal or studio session I had to wash hands numerous times as they would pick up this goo and all the dirt that would stick to it. Yechh. On occasion, if there's a road case company nearby, have them re-foam cases where the old foam was going to hell. Or on tour we'd find a source for sheet foam & a couple cans of 3M spray contact cement, have a foam party. We'd try to set that up on an outdoor gig, in nice weather, out on a PA wing of the stage. Oboy, flying razor blades 'n spray glue, what a great time!

Can't say I've ever seen a road case lined with tuck'n'roll though. There is a soft case company though, Studio Slips, that uses quilt cloth not foam on the inside of their amp slip covers. One of my customers got one for her Princeton Reverb, and it's the cat's pajamas. They cost a little more than the typical D2R, Tuki & similar padded covers, but imho an extra $25 or so is money well spent for that level of luxury.

[drewl]

Huh, on the bench I have a mint condition, all original, pristine Univox U155-R. Still has the warranty card.

Except it doesn't work.
just about all those crappy little gray electrolytic coupling caps are leaky.
So the tremolo doesn't work, reverb sounds crappy.
Bypassed one and volume came up. Funny thing is the filter caps are all good.

But after I install a three prong cord, I'm going to have to replace just about all the caps in this amp.

owner understands as he also wants to play it.

[bob p]

That's always bugged me too. Who want's to look at an old, checked, flaky gold top LP? They're ugly enough when they're new If anyone has measured the resonant difference between an original finish and catalyzed polyester I'd be interested in the result. These aren't Stradivarius violins with a hand shaved, tuned soundboard. These are freaking blocks of wood. They should at least be pretty blocks of wood.

I like the look of a new goldtop, but it has to be one that has the genuine 50s gold finish, not that green crap that they're passing off as goldtops today. The current Gibson goldtops out of the historic shop look really nice, the memphis ones not so much. And the Epis just look so green that they're just wrong.

A crusty looking vintage goltop doesn't bother me, but for some reason those sunburst Strats that have been attacked with a belt sander until there's no sunburst left, and then beaten with a rusty log chain to make them look so ugly that they make the Stevie Ray Vaughanabees happy -- that really bugs me. No guitar has ever aged that way naturally, so why are those guys attacking the finish until there's nothing left but a small patch of paint left on the guitar? Relic'ing guitars has turned into a stupidity contest for posers. I like my guitars to look nice. My amps too. I can't stand to look at a tweed amp that looks like it was dragged out of the backwash from Hurricaine Katrina.

the one kind of guitar that I'd rather see left not refinished is a vintage carved archtop, our guitar equivalent of the Stradivarius violin. I was at the Chicago Guitar Show a couple of years ago, and I saw an old 18-inch Stromberg that had been stripped down to bare wood and refinished with a vintage sunburst paintjob so it looked like something that just came out of the Gibson custom shop. Nobody in his right mind wants an old archtop that's been repainted with a vintage sunburst finish, because everyone knows that there's a hack repair hiding underneath the paint.

[Chuck H]

...but for some reason those sunburst Strats that have been attacked with a belt sander until there's no sunburst left, and then beaten with a rusty log chain to make them look so ugly that they make the Stevie Ray Vaughanabees happy

"attacked with a belt sander" LOL Indeed! It's gotten pretty stupid. "My" strat is naturally relic'd now that it's oil finish is yellowed and rubbed shiny in places and 23 years with 10 knocking around doing gigs. It looks "appropriate" and I like it. I'll eat two day fridge pizza too, and I like it. But I don't want an artificially relic'd strat any more than I would want to eat artificially relic'd pizza

Nobody in his right mind wants an old archtop that's been repainted with a vintage sunburst finish, because everyone knows that there's a hack repair hiding underneath the paint.

That IS always a possibility. But I don't care for the so called "unburst" LP's any more than the gold tops (no offense, that's just me). Where the finish has lost all it's color. I like the cherry burst in shiny lacquer I'd hope that just making a guitar look good is the motivation, and not hiding a repair at least some of the time.

[SoulFetish]

Hows this for timing-
First Job of the day, my boss points to a silverface Super Reverb in beautiful condition. Customer must have dropped it off when I wasn’t there, so my boss gives me the quick overview of the job.
Customer had recently taken it in to some tech for service but brought it to us complaining he was experiencing shocks when playing through it. The previous tech gave the customer back the amp after replaced the screen resistors and a couple other parts.
So when he brought it to us we noticed the amp still had the original 2 prong chord. My boss asked him why it wasn’t updated to a three prong cord and the customer said that the amp tech told him he wanted to leave it original.


This is a perfect example of dangerous and misinformed judgement. Musicians count on us to make informed choices with their equipment and it is our responsibility to ensure that their equipment is operating safely. I apologize if this sounds preachy, but I absolutely believe this should be our first and foremost priority. I Remember an early mentor when I first started getting interested in this work taught me how to take precautions and work around high voltage circuits. He told me once “dont take anything for granted! Never bet your life on someone else doing their job... but if you want to do this job, do it like some someone’s life depends on it.”

[Chuck H]

When I was younger I almost went to work for Home Depot (they were brand new then). I made it through orientation, which was four days at that time, and then two days on the floor. I was so disgruntled that I said something to the manager that nearly got him out of his desk, and his job Anyway...

During orientation the instructor asked "What's the worst thing you can do to a customer?" Hands went up and we were saying things like "fail to provide assistance", "be rude to them" and "get distracted and forget to get back to them", etc. And the instructor says "No! The worst thing you can do to a customer is KILL them. Now begins the 'safety' portion of your training."

[g1]

That's funny. True though. I guess we should also bid them goodbye and 'don't get killed'!

[Chuck H]

That's funny. True though. I guess we should also bid them goodbye and 'don't get killed'!

Wouldn't THAT inspire some perplexed return glances. "Ok then. We'll see you next time. Be safe and don't die between now and then, right?"

[bob p]

I'd hope that just making a guitar look good is the motivation, and not hiding a repair at least some of the time.

when you're talking about a $40,000 guitar, hope shouldn't be part of the decision making process. at that price there's just too much incentive for fraud.

[bob p]

"No! The worst thing you can do to a customer is KILL them. Now begins the 'safety' portion of your training."

All things considered, I think killing your customers is bad for business.

[Chuck H]

I think I was sigged here for awhile when I said something similar on a thread where a bewteek builder actually had HV nodes exposed to potential handling in their build for a customer. The thing was an atrocity and received an appropriate amount of judgment here.

[g1]

I think I was sigged here for awhile when I said something similar on a thread where a bewteek builder actually had HV nodes exposed to potential handling in their build for a customer. The thing was an atrocity and received an appropriate amount of judgment here.

Correct, I had that sig for a while, I liked your wording. "So, for my small experience in the trade I would think that killing customers is, at the very least, bad for business"
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t30747-2/#post276477