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Tainwreck master volume question

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  • #31
    I've used it a few times with no problems, albiet with a 1MA pot instead of the 500KA I originally was asking about here. In each case it was never to drive an amp to bedroom levels, it was to take the edge off an otherwise too loud amp to be able to use it at gig levels. In each case the user was happy with the result, and I'm sure whatever extra strain is put on the tubes resulting in possible earlier replacement is well worth it to them as a practical matter.
    It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

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    • #32
      I tried it on my AC30, by removing the cap on the Cut pot.

      Didn't sound that great, so I used a dual 250k pot in place of the 220k grid resistors to ground.

      Same with my 18w Marshall clone, it sounds much better than a Crossline MV.

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      • #33
        If you take warranty claims into consideration, I can now see why no manufacturers are using crossline.
        The modern take is to use post-PI stepped attenuation, and call out wattage levels on the switch (whether this is deceptive practice or not is a separate discussion ).
        Two examples off the top of my head are the Laney Cub 15, and the Yorkville YBA-1Mod1.
        "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

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        • #34
          Matchless used a cross line master on a bunch of models. And Ceriatone is faithfully including it in their clones
          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

          "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

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          • #35
            Also many current Vox models (AC30/15/10) use it.

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            • #36
              I didn't mind this design at all in my Spitfire-w.-Cheez clone. Except it's not really for getting preamp distortion, it's for "taking the edge off" as I think Randall stated above. With this one, you start at 10 & work your way down. You still end up with a loud amp, well, I don't call 15W loud, but yeah, it's not for "not pissing off the neighbors" or "bees-in-a-can-distortotron." If you turn ut down THAT low, yeah, it sounds like crap. But then so did that 78 JMP100, the Sovtek Mig-100U, any Peavey, any Hot-Rod-DeVille-style amp, my Prosonic, and every other amp I've used with a Master Volume.

              Of course, that Spitfire was the LAST time I built an amp with any sort of Master Volume, too...

              Justin
              "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
              "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
              "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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              • #37
                I stand corrected. I will suggest that most of those models are known to run hot. For the matchless, burning through tubes may even be a point of honour.
                "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by g1 View Post
                  I stand corrected. I will suggest that most of those models are known to run hot. For the matchless, burning through tubes may even be a point of honour.
                  LOL!!!

                  I can actually imagine Matchless owners talking to each other saying things like: "I replace my tubes every two hundred hours." And the response is "Yeah, well, I replace my tubes every hundred hours!"...
                  "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                  "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                  "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I guess now we know why they don't need matches
                    The prince and the count always insist on tubes being healthy before they're broken

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by NateS View Post
                      I guess now we know why they don't need matches
                      Badump bump.
                      "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                      "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                      "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Forget all of this. If you want to “tame” a 100 watt Marshall, pull 2 power tubes and get a power soak speaker attenuator. I have never understood using a Marshall or a Twin Reverb with the master on 2. But that’s me..

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by olddawg View Post
                          Forget all of this. If you want to “tame” a 100 watt Marshall, pull 2 power tubes and get a power soak speaker attenuator. I have never understood using a Marshall or a Twin Reverb with the master on 2. But that’s me..
                          And another

                          My personal amp is (ok, it's actually two amps, but they're the same model) a 2xel84 job that I designed. When I want big, saturated tone at lower volumes I use my attenuator. There's just not a master volume (that I've used) that can capture "that" tone as well. Though I'm working on that But your point is clear and obvious. The best way to hear the whole amp is to use the whole amp. That's what's been working for me so far. And since using an attenuator I just can't go back to a master volume circuit now. JM2C.

                          Oh... And my attenuator is of my own design. And it's great (If I do say so ) but there are plenty of good attenuator circuits on the market. So it's not really a matter of "which attenuator".
                          Last edited by Chuck H; 05-15-2020, 04:04 AM.
                          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                          "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                            And another

                            My personal amp is (ok, it's actually two amps, but they're the same model) a 2xel84 job that I designed. When I want big, saturated tone at lower volumes I use my attenuator. There's just not a master volume (that I've used) that can capture "that" tone as well. Though I'm working on that But your point is clear and obvious. The best way to hear the whole amp is to use the whole amp. That's what's been working for me so far. And since using an attenuator I just can't go back to a master volume circuit now. JM2C.

                            Oh... And my attenuator is of my own design. And it's great (If I do say so ) but there are plenty of good attenuator circuits on the market. So it's not really a matter of "which attenuator".
                            Yep.. I use a 2x EL84 two channel amp with a switchable attenuator. It’s all you need for clubs nowadays. Maybe a mic on it. For a less 25 watt amp the Weber attenuator is really nice and you can’t build it for what it costs. It has their proprietary speaker motor load. But I wonder sometimes.. My last build I simply used a 100 watt $14 L-Pad on the back next to the speaker out. Sounds fine.

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                            • #44
                              To keep things in perspective, for me at least, the customer requested a "PPI Master Volume" install on his amp. I did as requested, and he loves it. It cost him $80, and he's happy, so THE END.
                              It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

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