CE can cap failures?

[glebert]

Has anyone had problems with CE multi cap cans? I was talking to a well regarded tech the other day and he won't use them because he says they tend to fail spectacularly, and I had just put one into my 66 Princeton Reverb and the last PS node voltage comes up really slowly. Like it takes 10 minutes. I also have additional CE cans that I ordered that I'm now leery of. Anyone have any experiences, good or bad?

[The Dude]

I haven't used/purchased one in quite some time, so probably not much help answering your question. I have in the past used their multi can caps without issue as far as I know- nothing ever came back into the shop. I usually convert to separate caps rather than using a multi. It's cheaper, and with the size of modern electrolytics, it's usually not much trouble finding room for them.

[nosaj]

Hayseed Hamfest will make what you want if they don't already have it.https://hayseedhamfest.com/
nosaj

[glebert]

Hayseed Hamfest will make what you want if they don't already have it.https://hayseedhamfest.com/
nosaj

Wow, those prices are quite reasonable, I was expecting $$$. Not particularly easy to see what their standard values are, though. Oh well, nothing's ever as easy as we want, right?

[nosaj]

The quality is good too. Used them on a few recievers I recapped.
nosaj

[The Dude]

FWIW: I'm not saying it's good or bad- just making the point. The Hayseed cans (according to several forum posts I've read) are just containers stuffed with separate electrolytics, which is something you could do yourself if you wanted to take the time. Again, I'm not criticizing them. I don't see that there's anything wrong with that.

[SoulFetish]

I can't say I've witnessed any spectacular failures, however, there have been so many examples where we've serviced an amp fitted with CE can caps which prematurely fail. First, the cost of these are prohibitive to begin with, and with no evidence that CE has done anything to address and fix this, I would never supply these for service.
For customers which want a working replacement for a multi-sectional capacitor, we've used hayseed. There's a little bit of a lead time for these, but our experience has been positive so far.
CEDist has some JJ & F&T multi-sections available as well.
Hayseed advertises that they stuff their can caps. This is of little consequence to me personally, so long as they are constructed well using quality caps.

[garytoosweet]

I have seen the CE cans fail, sometimes spectacularly, and arrive DOA. I do not use them.

The Hayseed caps I have seen MIEC and Nichicon stuffed inside. MIEC are a Taiwanese cap, smaller manufacturer. Seem to be fine, but not what I would use if I was making can caps, personally.

[g1]

From the FAQ on the Hayseed Hamfest website:
"The capacitor sections in our products are new state-of-the-art discrete electrolytic capacitors. Roughly 90% are produced by Nichicon or United Chemi-Con. Certain applications use values supplied by other high quality manufacturers such as Panasonic, Illinois Capacitor, Rubycon, Roderstein, etc.."

[Tom Phillips]

There is a video on the CE website at https://www.cedist.com/tech-articles...itors-are-made which shows their can cap manufacturing process. I commend them for acquiring the equipment, making it operational and sourcing the raw materials. However, the resulting parts are no better than those manufactured when the equipment and the processes were originally put into production. They state "CE Manufacturing® multi-section electrolytic "can" capacitors are made with original vintage Mallory (P.R. Mallory & Co. Inc.) machinery. Mallory began using this machinery to manufacturing can capacitors in the early 1920s under the Mallory Capacitor Company." In addition, I was skeptical of some of the processes shown in the video such as dumping a load of cap guts from on container into another during the "spin dry" process.

I favor using modern electrolytics when I do rebuilds. If the discrete caps can't be fitted in a reasonable fashion or the customer wants an original appearance, I re-stuff the original cans. In the end, the new caps I install will give better performance and a longer life than the originals or the CE can caps. It's a bit more work but it's satisfying to me and my customers are pleased with the results.

Attached is a photo of a couple of re-stuffed cans. They were done for a 1969 Fisher Pre Amp/Power Amp that was unmolested during its life and I decided to preserve the original configuration of the true point-to-point wiring. I made labels for the re-stuffed cans to, hopefully, inform a future tech of the rebuild.

[SoulFetish]

Tom, I can certainly appreciate your work. But Im really impressed if you can make the labor involved profitable.

As for CE’s use of the original Mallory equipment; It’s my opinion that they don’t come close to the reliability of the original product.

[Tom Phillips]

...if you can make the labor involved profitable...

My business is profitable but not to the point that I would make a living doing only amp repairs. At this stage in my life I can justify doing selected projects that give me personal satisfaction. When a customer gives me the go-ahead to do what it takes to make his amp perform better than new I often donate extra labor to go beyond a normal repair. I also enjoy developing circuit mods that improve and customize performance for the specific customer. I have binders of hand written technical notes that date from the 1960's. I have been working to organize and index the information I have saved so that it is backed up and findable when I need it. It's turned out to be a useful but very time consuming endeavor.

The bench charge to re-stuff an average can cap is about the same as buying a CE made can. However, the performance and expected life of the finished product is far superior. In addition, the re-stuffed can is a perfect fit back into the original mounting position.

Fun fun fun for an electronics nerd that considers technical books as perfect bedtime reading material.

[SoulFetish]

you have it scanned and digitized?
(your notes, I mean)

[Tom Phillips]

you have it scanned and digitized? (your notes, I mean)

Yes. In addition, I document some things directly to computer files. I also take lots of digital photos. All my repair work orders since 1993 are in the computer. Earlier repairs are carbon copies left in the store bought receipt books but those don't have the detailed notes that the computer spreadsheets contain. I keep many of my hand written development notes after they are scanned. They are written in pencil on engineering paper so that I can revise and improve them if I re-visit the project. I just code them so I know the scan history and re-scan if I make changes. It's good that digital storage is so inexpensive now. My technical partition is presently ~35GB. Pretty amazing to me since my first hard drive was only 10MB.

Edit: I didn't mean to hijack this CE Can Cap discussion.
If people wish to continue the "Getting Organized" topic, we can start a new thread.