Shuguang 6L6WGC - any info

[Mick Bailey]

Why try to convince ourselves it means anything beyond that?

That's why I added "So what makes it special? could be as little as having TAD silk screened on the side."

Agreed, Everyone is trying to differentiate their products and make claims to suggest the customer is buying something extra, or special. In other markets it would be 'Pro', 'Platinum' or whatever. It used to be Turbo in the 80s.

If I were having tubes branded, even if they were identical to every other OEM tube, I'd call it an STR. Or something. Perhaps 'Eco' would sell more tubes. To suggest a relationship with a venerated product may imply timeless virtue so perhaps calling it '6L6WGC-STR-ECO-BLACKFACE-CLASSIC' may work.

Features;

Contains no added mercury (to imply that other products do)
Mil-Spec (even though the military don't use them so it would be difficult to disprove)
Fully recyclable (if anyone could be bothered)
Unique construction (meaning no two are ever alike)
Rich organic tone with enhanced harmonic detail (who could argue?)
Fits the majority of amps calling for a 6L6 tube (it has an octal base)
Custom manufactured (I get them printed up at the factory)

[Mick Bailey]

Now it appears the TAD STR's, long or short glass, are available directly from Radio Spares without having to get them from TAD, and that's nice if is saves some $$ or ££. But it does skip TAD's testing and matching routine. So you might wind up with some duds. We've been thru long discussions about similar situations with JJ tubes, especially their 6L6 and EL34 varieties. Conclusion was: better luck getting them thru an outfit that matches sets, and presumably culls out the duds.

What is puzzling is the 19W plate spec for WGS version, which matches the original 5881 TungSol spec. Far from 25-30W regardless of the "compatible" statement. I'd keep that 19W spec in mind when setting bias.

As a result of my complaint RS has removed them from sale today and asked me to send them back, as they can't be sure of the spec. When you look at the small plates they don't look like a 6L6GC, but neither do the TADs.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Features;

Contains no added mercury (to imply that other products do)
Mil-Spec (even though the military don't use them so it would be difficult to disprove)
Fully recyclable (if anyone could be bothered)
Unique construction (meaning no two are ever alike)
Rich organic tone with enhanced harmonic detail (who could argue?)
Fits the majority of amps calling for a 6L6 tube (it has an octal base)
Custom manufactured (I get them printed up at the factory)

Also - - - gluten-free!

"What made it special, made it dangerous.

So I buried it, in the garden."

Kate Bush "Cloudbusting"

These bulbs won't sprout in the spring... guaranteed.

[g1]

There is also a new "tung-sol" reissue 5881 that is rated similar the original, 23W. Also max. 400V plate.
The way the 5881 designation had morphed into another name for 6L6 with Russian tubes is bound to cause problems for some users.
Maybe the 19W 6L6 you mentioned is supposed to be a 5881 re-ish?
www.thetubestore.com - Tung-Sol 5881 Audio Tubes

[g1]

Both versions of the TAD's are available from AES, and they have the spec sheets for download. Both are 30W, 550V plate.
So I wouldn't worry about 3rd party spec sheets from Chinese wholesalers, they are probably the perfect example of a technical version of the "Chinese whispers" game.

[Mick Bailey]

Both versions of the TAD's are available from AES, and they have the spec sheets for download. Both are 30W, 550V plate.
So I wouldn't worry about 3rd party spec sheets from Chinese wholesalers, they are probably the perfect example of a technical version of the "Chinese whispers" game.

But that assumes that the Shuguang-branded open-market tubes are identical to TADs. They may not be, and visual clues may be misleading.

[km6xz]

They are made by Shuguang, and despite marketing claims, about the only option a "brand" can get is to have the pins gold plated.
Don't worry about the 250volt rating of the 6П3с-е it is more rugged than just about any 6L6 made. Those old specs were the same as the lower power 6П3с In fact that latter tube is considered a beefy 6V6 by many but it is more like a lower power 6L6, so 4 of them can produce about 65-70 watts. The 6П3с-е is a substantially beefier tube with almost twice the anode surface area. The nomenclature does not signify operational characteristics but only physical structure, such as triode, with octal base and glass envelope. The "е" on the c-e version means ruggedized but can mean a very different tube. I try to talk anyone who is using 6L6 style tubes, when the need a new set, to use the cheap 6П3с-е because I know they will not be a problem during my repair warranty period. The ones who insist on JJ or something are usually disappointed that one flashes over or turns unusable from microphonic in a week or two. That does not happen with the surplus Soviet era tubes.

Ignore spec sheets of any brander, none are close to what their family curves turn out to be if actually plotted out. I am sure that none of of the rebranders even have a curve tracer or care. The most sophisticated testing done is a low voltage test jig that just grades idle plate current for some unknown low plate voltage and triode strapping, and cathode bias. Test them in circuit and if you like one and get the price you want, order a bunch.
Shuguang will brand them for you in lots of 2000. Right now they are about the only maker who is cooperative or wishing to do business. The price range the rebranders sell the same exact tube for is amazing. You can find the same tube with a fancy logo in hi-end hi-fi circles for $100-200 each. Usually they come in a nicer card-stock box however, sometimes with fake velvet wrapping. They must sound better.

[Mick Bailey]

Thanks for that - I was hoping you'd contribute.

I've become pretty disillusioned with factory matching. After burn-in the drift is too much to warrant the claims of many suppliers. A recent set of JJ tubes set to 35ma per tube had shifted to 34, 26, 37, 46 in just a few weeks. I've recently been experimenting with a tube matching/burn-in rig and I'm surprised how much some tubes move, and how little others do.

TAD claims to match on current draw and transconductance. How much this matters in a guitar amp, compared to matching just on current draw, is open to question. The production line burn-in time is probably insufficient to reveal the tube's true eventual characteristics. I've just been looking at the premium they're putting on Sovtek 5881 - they're calling it 5881WXT-R and doubling the retail price.

[Leo_Gnardo]

They are made by Shuguang, and despite marketing claims, about the only option a "brand" can get is to have the pins gold plated.

How about those black plates which used to be peculiar to TAD ? All the other Shuggie's I've seen until now are grey. I figured TAD had specials made plus an exclusive deal with Shuguang, apparently exclusive up to recent months.

You can find the same tube with a fancy logo in hi-end hi-fi circles for $100-200 each. Usually they come in a nicer card-stock box however, sometimes with fake velvet wrapping. They must sound better.

Wow am I missing out on a profit opportunity! Must run off to the cloth store now, what color fake velvet will appeal . . . red, black, purple . . . tweed ??? Heck I could offer 'em to the guitar crowd at $60-80 each with all that razzmatazz and still wind up deep in the profit column. Mmmm now where's that tweed velvet?

[big_teee]

How about those black plates which used to be peculiar to TAD ? All the other Shuggie's I've seen until now are grey. I figured TAD had specials made plus an exclusive deal with Shuguang, apparently exclusive up to recent months.



Wow am I missing out on a profit opportunity! Must run off to the cloth store now, what color fake velvet will appeal . . . red, black, purple . . . tweed ??? Heck I could offer 'em to the guitar crowd at $60-80 each with all that razzmatazz and still wind up deep in the profit column. Mmmm now where's that tweed velvet?

Hey Leo, do you need a partner!
Charge $100, with a free T-Shirt.
T

[km6xz]

They build a number of different style tubes as their regular production products. I inquired about a custom tube of my own design but they told me they would only build something to order if a very large yearly commitment, which seemed like a very large volume, larger than any of the second tier brands would have the ability or reason to buy. Afterall, the yearly world wide production of small tubes is less than 5 million so none of the brands are very big companies, which is why no manufacturer is interested in investing in the automation or tooling for more advanced manufacturing methods. If there was need for 20,000,000, it might be worth it to make really good tubes, with very little variation between units. It vacuum tubes kept pace with the technologies of semiconductors, they would be bullet proof, 1% or better tolerances, last decades and cost $0.50....most of that would be shipping costs.

[Diablo]

Slightly off the subject, but I have some Shuguang EL34s. I notice that more than a few have pins that don't fit the tube sockets because of solder blobs. Is this typical of most Shugaung tubes? I wind up taking a small flat file to the side of the pins.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Slightly off the subject, but I have some Shuguang EL34s. I notice that more than a few have pins that don't fit the tube sockets because of solder blobs. Is this typical of most Shugaung tubes? I wind up taking a small flat file to the side of the pins.

Unfortunately yes. Your file solution is same as I've had to do on occasion. I get mine thru Ruby and a couple years ago it was just about every EL34 and 6L6, and I complained about it. I'm sure others were making the same complaint. Now it's not every tube, but still more of a hassle than I'd like. Shuguang are doing themselves no favors by allowing this to continue. I put up with it because I've found their tubes to be pretty darn good performers at a reasonable price point. Now consider 10-14 years ago when JJ octal base tubes all had pins that were too narrow - fell right out of their sockets - and even a spring-clip retainer wouldn't guarantee the pins were making contact with the sockets. How the tube makers let details like this undermine themselves, it's beyond me. Verrrry frustrating.

[yankeerob]

Don't worry about the 250volt rating of the 6П3с-е it is more rugged than just about any 6L6 made.

A little bit off thread but I can confirm the 6n3c-E will quite happily run at well over 500V plates - In my experience new built Sovtek 5881WGC-STRs offer pretty much the same performance and durability. I've heard people go on about how these or those valves are the best sounding but to be honest the 6n3c-E/5881WGC-STR are not bad sounding valves... I'd argue that they are very honest... they've certainly always given me excellent performance as a small manufacturer. Just a shame that the supply of 80's built units is starting to dwindle. The modern built ones seem to be pretty much on par though... there are small differences in that the plate structure is spot welded on the new ones and the getter is slightly different but as far as getting the job done I have had no reason to complain over the past 4 yrs of supplying over a 100 amps with them in...

I am - however - interested to hear of anyone's experience with Tube Town's own branded 6L6 types... I'm guessing that they are in fact Shuguangs but cannot be absolutely sure. The reason I bring them up is that I had previously been buying 6n3c-Es in matched quads from them and they were excellent. The matching was the best I've ever come across and they sounded sublime. Sadly, TT are no longer carrying the 6n3c-E and are offering two 6L6 variants under their own brand so... I am going to buy in a small quantity to see what they are about...

Will report in then...

[Mick Bailey]

I also like the Sovtek 5881. I fit these to amps where reliability is paramount - especially where the plate or screen voltages are high. They outlast many competitors and the matching holds up. There's a good reason why they come as OEM in many amps; Fender, Engl, and lots of others fit them as standard.