Russian made Groove Tubes?

[gui_tarzan]

Really? I guess if they are just re-branding they probably get them from whoever they can. Are they any good?

[Enzo]

Not sure what you are asking? A Sovtek 6L6 is still a Sovtek 6L6, regardless of a "GT" on the side or not.

[gui_tarzan]

Just wanted to make sure, anything coming out of Russia is from the Sovtek plant? I like the Sovtek 5881WXTs I got for my Fender but that was a long time ago.

[Justin Thomas]

Groove Tubes has never made a tube. They have bought tubes from ALL manufacturers since day one. They began using Russian & Chinese when the stocks of American/Brit/German tubes dried up & got heinously $$$$$$... I have a GT 6L6GC USA made that came in a Peavey Deuce. I have a set of GT JJ EL34s. I have several GT-branded Sovtek & Shuguang 12A_7s that have come in various amps over the years. All this is before Fender bought GT a few years back. GT buys tubes from all over and "performance matches" them, whatever that means. The idea being, you pay them to eliminate the "crap-shoot factor" when you are buying new tubes. One of their ideas was that if you buy a pair of "8-rated" 6L6s, as long as you ordered #8s in the future, no rebiasing, no tech charges, no hassle! As Enzo said, a Russian GT is still a Sovtek... I just get my preamp tubes tested for noise & microphonics and my power tibes matched by my regular guys who don't charge double for the same tube.

I personally do not pay the price premium for GTs. I can bias and tweak my own amps, thank you very much, and most of the preamp tubes of theirs that I get go microphonic VERY quickly. Oh - that 6L6GC also has one of the spacers flaking on one side, so it is microphonic, too. Granted it's at least 35 years old, but none of the 3 Sylvania 6L6GC STR387s have that problem. I thonk the Russian GTs are worth whatever everyone else charges for the same tube.

Justin

Since you want Sovtek 5881WXTs, just get them tested & matched from AES/Tube Depot/whoever. That's a respectable tube, hard to kill, and still made, and available for...oh, ~$35/pair. What's GT want for them? And, the 6L6WXT & 5881 WXT are NOT the same - check the innards.

Edit 2: basically, for our purposes, yes, Sovtek is it for Russian tubes. SED still does radio tubes, etc.

[gui_tarzan]

I knew GT was strictly a re-brander, I just wasn't sure where they were getting the bulk of their tubes right now. A friend of mine has a music store and I just found out a few minutes ago he's a GT dealer. But he said he prefers the Russian stock, doesn't like the Chinese tubes at all. It's like buying a car I suppose, you'll have good and bad in any given product.

[Justin Thomas]

See if any of the Sovteks match any of the GTs on the guts... betcha they do! Then decide if the price diff is worth it. You almost have to be a GT dealer either for warranty reasons (Fender?) or for the occasional person who comes in and INSISTS on having them... I steer people clear. My (few) customers are very happy to not pay double! I don't know if GT is "bad," exactly, just not worth it to me. Back in the day before I DIYed, I bought a set of GTs...

Justin

[gui_tarzan]

I get what you're saying, believe me. I'm normally a cheap bastard but I will pay a little more for quality and service, but not for the name.

[Justin Thomas]

In which case I always support my local indie music shop when I can... And since nobody around wants to stock my strings, I support a local shop in Enzo's area! If your friend has your Sovteks you like, buy them from him - he'll prolly back you up. I'll pay for a name if they've earned my support & backed up their product...

Justin

[Enzo]

The GT 6L6s I see already IN new Fender amps have their color GT label printed right over the Sovtek writing. it isn;t a secret, look on the tube. If you see Sovtek in writing on it under the GT, then Sovtek it is.

I have to replace tubes in fender amps now and then, almost always in dealer stock items, rarely in customer amps. I don't worry about GT branded tubes, If i have to install a pair of output tubes, I just list them on the claim as non-FMIC parts. I have done that for years, and no one has ever beefed my claims.

[gui_tarzan]

FMIC?

[Justin Thomas]

Fender Musical Instrument Corporation.

[gui_tarzan]

Ah, ok.

[km6xz]

If you got your 5881's a long time ago they are probably not Reflektor tubes, the factory that New Sensor(Sovtek) bought in Saratov Russia but real Soviet era tubes. GT got its start by rebanding tubes and the cheapest and easiest supply was the millions of warehouses 6п3с-е USSR tubes that were close to the 5881 in specs but had a flat wafer base instead of the western style octal plastic black tube base. That is how Sovtek got started also. At the time you could buy them for $0.20 each and they were very good. Later when those warehouses became depleted(although new stocks are found all the time) prices went up to $1.50 in single lots.
GT is not a tube manufacturer but is a marketing company that built hype and false claims into a well known brand. If ANY brand is on the shelf next to GT, I would pick the alternative. For years I found higher than normal failure rates, mismatching of "matched" set, and generally less reliable performance from GT. The founder is a huckster and not an engineer or tech and proves it everything he opens his mouth. Personally, I would go with the company that offers the best no-questions warranty. There is a difference in how various brands test and rate their items and some I am convinced, buy up the tubes that more reputable companies sell off as seconds.
In the old days those seconds would have gone to the crusher but now they are rebranded and sold to you. I would be more concerned with testing quality than dubious sonic claims made on the internet.
If a tube is priced more than say 20% over prevailing market rates for a given style of tube, I would bypass them because the ones who claim superior quality and charge more are usually marketing companies, not technical product experts. You find that in high-end hi-fi, where the higher the price the more hype surrounds it and almost always indicates a con man is involved somewhere. By the same token, finding prices much lower than the norm is not usually a sign of your good luck in finding a cheaper company but instead a good risk of getting seconds rejected from other companies.

[Justin Thomas]

Thanks Stan! I've actually gotten both bases on the 5881WXTs... the ones that came in my Prosonic (1998) had the black base; every other had the wafer. So are you saying the wafer base is the older Soviet military design? Makes sense, as they are a bit more compact. They were all branded Sovtek... also heard that those "5881" tubes measure much closer to a 6L6GC or 7027 in capabilities than a real 5881 - higher voltages, higher dissipation, very hard to kill, which would make sense in military hardware or guitar amps.

Justin

[Leo_Gnardo]

Folks, let's not forget, Fender BOUGHT Groove Tubes, the company, about 5-6 years ago. Lock stock & barrel. So at that time every Fender dealer became a GT dealer whether they liked it or not. Grading 1 thru 10 went out the window, now it's 3 broad categories, red white & blue. Which one's hi, medium, low emissivity/gain, who knows. Matching? Close enough for rock and roll.

GT Founder Aspen Pittman did admit in the intro to "The GT Book", that he's a salesman, and not technically adept. At least the book is filled with reprints of reasonably good advice and contains this gem - "The Trainwreck Pages" of solid good advice from Ken Fisher. Plus hundreds of schematics. For me, the schematics are the attraction but now that everything's on the internet, and more easily read from a computer screen, maybe the need for the GT book has gone by the wayside.

Mr. Pittman was asked what $$ he sold the company for, but wouldn't admit the cash price. He said it was equivalent to 10 years profits for him, so who wouldn't sell out for 10 years less headaches running a company, and a big pile 'o cash. He may be a huckster but he was aimed in a good direction. Around 1980, when GT got going, the vacuum tube scene was grim indeed. You can blame him for a lot & I'm sure he deserves it (and doesn't care, living the high life, big so what) BUT he sparked a lot of tube sales & kept the game going, thank him for that. Just like many companies (GM, ATT, IBM) they ain't what they used to be.