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  • #46
    Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
    I went to a gig (as an audience member) to see a guy that owns two of my amps as well as a little Mesa Subway Blues that I modified (his smallest amp). I asked the sound guy which amp he liked the best.?. He said "The little one".
    Sound Guys -- It's like they're in a damned Union.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
      I went to a gig (as an audience member) to see a guy that owns two of my amps as well as a little Mesa Subway Blues that I modified (his smallest amp). I asked the sound guy which amp he liked the best.?. He said "The little one".
      >:[
      Quoting from the guy in "Happy Gilmore":
      "JACKAAAAAAASSSSS!"

      On another note, it's hilarious when you show up with a "toaster" amp & plug it into a 2x15. They think the size of the speakers makes it more powerful or something.

      Justin
      "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
      "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
      "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Justin Thomas View Post
        They think the size of the speakers makes it more powerful or something.
        well, they do. it's about matching the speaker:air interface to the impedance of air.
        "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

        "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

        Comment


        • #49
          The same Printer2 who is already featured in this thread for his 6AK6 amp, also had a thread in which he reported measurements using first one,and then two, identical speaker cabs; I think first one and then both speakers were wired to the same solid-state power amp, driven by a white noise signal. An SPL meter showed a 6 dB increase in loudness.

          The interesting part is that paralleling the two identical speakers draws double the power from the amp - but that only accounts for a +3 dB increase in loudness! The other 3 dB increase had to come from the increased speaker efficiency due to having twice the cone area as before.

          I think this sort of efficiency increase (from increasing cone area) only happens at frequencies low enough for the wavelength to be much bigger than the speaker diameter. For a 12" speaker with an effective 11" piston diameter, the sound wavelength equals the cone diameter at about 1200 Hz. Most of the fundamental frequencies in guitar music are under 664 Hz (12th fret on the high E string), so most of the sound energy is indeed at wavelengths much bigger than the speaker diameter.

          -Gnobuddy

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          • #50
            the principles you're describing are well known. acoustic engineers refer to the phenomenon you're describing as "mutual coupling" between drivers. the math actually says that mutual coupling only occurs if the distance between the center of each adjacent driver is less than lambda/2 (one half wavelength).

            think about diffraction ... but occurring backwards.

            for mutual coupling to occur between 2 or more drivers they have to be reproducing the same signal, in phase, with a common axis of projection. the combined signal will propagate on-axis as if it were a single waveform with the multiple drivers behaving as if they were one driver with their composite surface area. the larger driver is more efficient in matching the impedance of free air at those frequencies.

            it's important to note that these coupling effects only occur on-axis, and for signals that are of adequate wavelength relative to the center-center distance of the drivers.

            the coupling effect is directional; the coupling occurs on-axis. the on-axis coupling actually occurs independent of the driver spacing, but frequency dependent combing will occur off-axis. as the wavelength of the signal increases relative to the distance between the drivers' acoustic centers, the off-axis angle at which mutual coupling continues to occur will increase.

            the effects are only practical at frequencies below ~ 500 Hz because of the physical size of the loudspeakers. if the speaker-speaker distance is > 1x lambda the gain in SPL will be +3dB. if the speaker-speaker distance is 1/2 lambda then mutual coupling occurs at that frequency and the gain in SPL is +6 dB.
            "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

            "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by bob p View Post
              the principles you're describing are well known.
              Oh, I know. Just keeping it relatively simple and non-technical.

              There is a lot of physics from classical optics (diffraction and interference) that is quite directly relevant to speaker systems using multiple full-range drivers. And some odd gaps in our thinking about them when it comes to musical instruments, audio, and speakers.

              For instance, why does everyone seem to understand that "line array" speakers should stand upright, but continue to place two speakers horizontally, side-by-side, in 2x10 or 2x12 guitar amps ? That is a recipe for severe beaming in the horizontal plane, exactly where your audience is spread out!

              Same thing for those "sound bar" speakers that are supposed to go under your TV to provide the centre channel. That's a line array, placed horizontally, so it beams like a searchlight in the horizontal direction, and gives decent acoustic dispersion in the vertical direction. Exactly the opposite of what is actually desired! That sound-bar should be standing upright under your TV, not lying on its side.

              I have actually seen one bass guitar cab which placed its two speakers vertically, one above the other. It stood on its small end, tall and upright, like a vintage home Hi-Fi speaker. Whomever designed that speaker system got it right! (Unfortunately, I don't remember the brand.)

              -Gnobuddy

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              • #52
                bass players are actually pretty good about orienting their speakers vertically. the guys at talkbass are huge proponents of the vertical arrays. as much as i agree with it, i can't get over how funny a skinny vertical 4x12 stack looks with a wide head balancing on top of it.


                at least Leo was smart enough to place the 2x10 speakers at an angle in the early 50s V-front super.

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                as far as the soundbar speakers go, they're just an add on that fits underneath or on top of your TV. they do it that way for the acceptance factor. nobody's wife is going to want a vertical post speaker sticking out on top of the TV.
                "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by bob p View Post
                  bass players are actually pretty good about orienting their speakers vertically. the guys at talkbass are huge proponents of the vertical arrays.
                  In my experience, generally speaking, bass players seem to be a lot more willing to abandon tradition when something new and improved comes along. Guitar players tend to cling to the past, whether or not it makes sense.

                  Originally posted by bob p View Post
                  i can't get over how funny a skinny vertical 4x12 stack looks with a wide head balancing on top of it.
                  There's an easy fix for that, start making narrow heads!

                  Originally posted by bob p View Post
                  at least Leo was smart enough to place the 2x10 speakers at an angle in the early 50s V-front super.
                  I'll bet he was simply trying to use as little wood as possible for the cabinet, and never had a clue about the acoustic aspects of the design. Leo never stopped thinking like an accountant!

                  Originally posted by bob p View Post
                  nobody's wife is going to want a vertical post speaker sticking out on top of the TV.
                  No, but the solution is simple: raise the TV, install the vertical centre-channel soundbar underneath it.

                  Even better, of course, is to toss the soundbar, and use a proper speaker speaker enclosure under the TV for the centre channel. You won't have to raise the TV as high, and you won't have to deal with the crappy sound quality that usually goes with a string of 2" drivers in a long pipe enclosure with poorly damped organ-pipe resonances.

                  Me, I just use two-channel stereo sound, with one monitor (speaker) on each side of the TV. The centre channel often takes away too much of the stereo image for my tastes.

                  -Gnobuddy

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                  • #54
                    I’m also in agreement that 1 or 2 watts is way to loud in many dwellings, with standard guitar speakers.

                    The Yamaha THR5 I use for low volume practice is great for bedroom level playing but after a little playing there is still the feeling I need to turn it up a notch so that it feels loud in the room and give the right vibe.

                    The speaker section has 2.5” or 3” speakers, that would not be super efficient and a ported cab.

                    Has anyone experimented much with this size of speaker and cab?

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