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A novel kind of guitar Tone control

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  • Steve A.
    replied
    I'm resurrecting this thread which has some interesting ideas regarding guitar tone control circuits. Perhaps someone could draw up schematics of the ideas (the originals were lost in the infamous Purging of Attachments here.)

    Steve Ahola

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  • David Schwab
    replied
    I'm definitely going to give it a try when I get a chance.

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  • vintagekiki
    replied
    I am not talking about EQ. I'm just saying that I bridged T filter from EQ to try the idea. The loss of high tones, which is due to attenuation of the volume pot. compensated with a capacitor .00047 uF.
    That would not sound too sharp, T filter 1 x 220k / .0047 uF cut middle approximately on 500Hz and gives a balanced sound that is not dependent on the position of the volume pot.
    To be clear, is not a story of EQ. The story is about a passive frequency compensated guitar volume control. On the same principle work frequently compensated attenuators measuring equipment

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  • David Schwab
    replied
    Originally posted by vintagekiki View Post
    I said that the idea of frequency dependent compensation was derived from the Standel equalizer. Do not forget that all the tone controls in many guitar mostly passive. Frequency compensation for attenuators measuring equipment also is passive. On a similar basis function frequency compensated guitar volume control.
    The basic idea is not change the tonal balance when using volume pot. It is known that reducing the volume pot, guitar gets a little darker tone. Using frequency compensated guitar volume control (tone pot at the right position or boost) does not change the color tone when the change volume.
    As I said, schematics is extremely simple. Try it, it costs nothing. After we can talk.
    What I said is wont you get some insertion loss? Equalizers, such as the one you show, have active stages for gain recovery, and that one has an active stage on each band. You can't get any boost from a passive circuit.

    So while this might give an even tone, it will reduce the output.

    The reason you lose highs with a volume control has nothing to do with the tone control circuit. The cap trick is to try and add some highs back, but it's never the same as not loading the pickup in the first place. The load lowers and flattens the resonant peak on the pickup.

    But I'l give the circuit a try when I get some time.
    Last edited by David Schwab; 07-04-2010, 04:17 AM.

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  • vintagekiki
    replied
    I said that the idea of frequency dependent compensation was derived from the Standel equalizer. Do not forget that all the tone controls in many guitar mostly passive. Frequency compensation for attenuators measuring equipment also is passive. On a similar basis function frequency compensated guitar volume control.
    The basic idea is not change the tonal balance when using volume pot. It is known that reducing the volume pot, guitar gets a little darker tone. Using frequency compensated guitar volume control (tone pot at the right position or boost) does not change the color tone when the change volume.
    As I said, schematics is extremely simple. Try it, it costs nothing. After we can talk.

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  • David Schwab
    replied
    Originally posted by vintagekiki View Post
    I'd imagine you will have some insertion loss, no? These types of circuits are not intended for passive guitars. Usually there is some makeup gain.

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  • vintagekiki
    replied
    About frequency compensated guitar volume control.
    The basic idea came from the Standel FB-5 equalizer. Schematics is a bridged T filter for approximately 500Hz. Volume and tone pots are standard guitar values (250 - 500kOhm).
    At lower values of volume pot, and tone pot in boost (right) position, is no too much effect treble boost capacitor 470 pf, so that the tone is too sharp, but it is pleasant to the ear. T filter (2 x 220kOhm/ .0047uF) is a middle cut to approximately 500 Hz, whose effect gradually disappears at higher values of volume pot. In middle position tone control, guitar tone is flat, that would gradually go to treble cut (tone pot in left position).
    By reducing the volume control, does not change the character of the guitar tone. Relationship of high and low tones are independent of the position of the volume pot. In other words volume pot is frequently compensated for the desired frequency (in this case it is 500 Hz). Each guitarist choose the frequency that suits him, for his ear, and calculated values for the bridged T filter and treble cut capacitor (.01-.047uF)

    Schematics is extremely simple. Try it, and after we can talk.
    Last edited by vintagekiki; 07-02-2010, 04:50 AM.

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  • Mark Hammer
    replied
    That's 99% correct. Stick a 100k-150k fixed resistor between the wiper of the tone pot and 1000pf cap, and you're in business. That will provide a better taper for nudging the mids more with less pot rotation, without deleteriously affecting the treble cut function.

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  • Mark Hammer
    replied
    Interesting, though it looks like it is essentially a midscoop network. The use of 220k resistors seems a bit odd, though, and demanding of a very high-value volume pot in order to do anything noticeable.

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  • Guitarist
    replied
    Schematic updated

    But that "compensated" idea looks like a tone killer. I quite agree with adding that smoothing-resistor in series to the treble bleed cap, sounds better to me too. The nice thing about this is that, the guitar just "works" - like a Mac. You don't need confusing switches. But I better try this, err, first...
    Is this schematic right enough? [edit: now it is.]
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Guitarist; 07-01-2010, 08:40 PM. Reason: added the Tone-taper resistor

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  • dougw
    replied
    I tend to agree with Groover. The cap alone, even if smaller than usual, doesn't track well to my ears. I tend to use a resistor roughly the value of what the effect pot resistance is more or less.

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  • vintagekiki
    replied
    Extremely efficient frequency compensated guitar volume control.
    Attached Files

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  • Old Tele man
    replied
    Leo thought of a lot of different tone circuits:

    TONE CONTROL FOR STRINGED INSTRUMENTS - Google Patent Search

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  • dougw
    replied
    I guess you are aware of this:

    Fender Products: TBX Tone Control

    I had that on a couple of Fenders and it does what it says it does. The down side to it is that it is somewhat abrupt under "5" and way to bright above "8", so I have take it out and replaced with a conventional tone control. They had another scheme that actually disabled the tone control completely at "10", but I've never tried it.

    I got to give your idea a shot though. Thanks for coming up with that.

    Doug

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  • Groover
    replied
    IIRC I started using RC combos in my guitar vol bright circuit because a small cap alone had too high of a corner frequency for my taste, but using a bigger cap alone made the effect too pronounced. I also like the way the R smooths out the taper.

    I have been thinking about using a push-pull vol pot to switch the bright circuit in and out, but your idea might be a nice alternative.

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