Help me choose between two DIY headless tuner designs

[earthtonesaudio]

In my planning to build a headless travel guitar with a nonconductive tremolo bridge (nonconductive to allow hexaphonic moving-coil pickup system as described by fellow poster "bbsailor"), and now I'm down to a choice between two tuning systems:

The ones here (lever based tensioning)
Eric Olds Klein Guitar Project – Part 2

...or here (linear screw tensioning)
Make Your Own Headless Guitar Tuners!

Either one looks like something I could DIY and be able to modify rather simply so the strings are electrically isolated from each other, so it's down to other criteria to make the decision. Without building prototypes of each, I can't picture which would be easiest to use, or which would hold up to the elements (sweat, grime, dust, etc.) better.


So I ask those of you who have experience with esoteric tuning machines, or just a good mechanical mind, which design would be the better long-term reliability approach?

[earthtonesaudio]

I think I'm leaning more toward the linear screw-pull design. Overall it looks simpler, and maybe more tolerant of modifications to the design.

[Felgacarb]

I'm a fan of the first option you listed, the tuning tailstop. (Mostly because that one's mine...) I'd base the decision more on how you intend to mount it to the guitar body- if on the soundboard, the second works better. If you can put it on the end, the the tailstop will work. An advantage of the tailstop is it allows you to put the ball end of the strings at the head of the guitar.

I expect both options would hold up well- I've been using mine as my primary instrument for two years now and have been nothing but happy with it. (I'm considering building a second for another instrument.) The best aspect of it is the direct-drive tuning- it's very easy to use and quite stable. It's hard to go back to regular tuning machines, even very good ones, after using these. I expect that's true of the other design, and Steinberger's for that matter, too.

[David King]

From a simplicity standpoint that second would appear to have the fewest parts to deal with. I've been making many dozens of that type for over twenty years and they seem to immune to problems on basses. Besides basses I've only tried a lap steel guitar. They can be largely made of wood to help isolate the string electrically.

[bbsailor]

Earthtonesaudio,

Look at the following link for the these tuners from Stewart McDonald. STEWMAC.COM : Steinberger Gearless Tuners

Since each tuner is totally separate from the others there will be full electrical isolation between the tuners thus making six moving coil pickups easier to accomplish for a hex output. You may need to find a creative way to mount them to have enough space between the strings while pulling the strings in a relativly straight pattern to fit the bridge string spacing. Maybe using a diagonal rear mounting behind the bridge (like a Fender style 6 on a side) will keep the string pull straight to the bridge string spacing.

Try to make the truss rod ground return have a resistance at least 10 times less than the lowest string resistance to maximize the output.

Check it out and let me know what you think?

I hope this helps.

Joseph Rogowski

[andrea]

Hi, I'm andrea from Italy. I know this thread is dead old, but I'm planning on building a diy tuner for a headless guitar and last sleepless night I've come up with this kind of unusual idea that I'm starting to like a lot (cheap, easy to build with non-professional tools, hidden, lets tremolo work). I've thought about it for a couple of hours and it seems to me it can actually work, but before I waste my efforts on a flawed project I'd like for some of you to take a look at it and tell me why it will not work. Please, be forgiving about the terminology I use, my written English could use some help, the picture should hopefully make the idea clearer.

The idea is to take a plate the same size of the bottom end bridge, drill six holes on the plate right where the string holes of the bottom end of the bridge are, solder six nuts over that plate holes, screw (somehow) the plate to the bottom end of the bridge, attach the string on the bottom of a "round-eyed-bolt" (for lack of the correct term, picture will help), screw the bolt full way down its nut, attach the other end of the string at the top of the headless neck (I'm thinking double ball end strings) and then use the round-eyed part of the bolt to screw/unscrew the bolt up and down to the desidered string tension. Would it possibly work ? It's going on a cheap guitar I'll use for exercise in dire situation (train station, waiting on something, and the like), I can stand poor sound and some time adjusting the tunes (but not too much time).

thanks and best regards,

andrea


[edited] The first version was seriuosly flawed, the butterfly nuts are useless, I've updated text and picture to reflect a better senario





And now I can see that this scenario is flawed too, for the strings will be twisted on themselves while the bolt is turned. It won't work.