Luthiery/frets: stupid questions and crazy tips

[Steve A.]

You can spend $20 on a compensated string spacing ruler at StewMac*** which gives more space for the bass strings so they don't feel so crowded. Or you can print out this picture for free...





Steve A.

*** http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Straightedges/String_Spacing_Rule.html

[Steve A.]

Parts for Klein Do-It-Yerself fret bender

Parts for Klein Do-It-Yerself fret bender:


The plans call for Slide-Co#1328 slide glass door wheels (a pack of two) but they are also sold as a Prime-Line D-1500. The window crank is Slide-Co 17240 (be sure not to get the 17240-2 crank which is for a 3/8" shaft.)







Slide-Co 1328 Sliding Door Roller with 1-Inch Steel Ball Bearing and 1/4-Inch Hole, 2-Pack - Screen Door Hardware - Amazon.com







Prime-Line Products 17240 Casement Operator Crank Handle, 5/16-Inch Bore, Aluminum - Cabinet And Furniture Drawer Slides - Amazon.com

Steve Ahola

P.S. The plans for this project at LMI are well worth $5.90. I had gotten the impression that it was a single letter-sized sheet but there are full-sized drawings of the project on two 15"x22" pages. Since I was already placing an order with them for Jesco EVO gold fretwire the shipping charge was not an issue (as I had complained about previously.)

A big 3 thumbs up for LMI! I had placed the order on Friday and I just now received it on Tuesday morning. And they use a very strong 24x24 cardboard box for shipping coiled fretwire.

[Steve A.]

I keep knocking off guitar nuts when leveling or beveling frets. "Damn- I did it again!" I'd been trying to figure out a good way to keep from banging into the nut while still giving access to the first fret when I ran across a great tip: make a little ramp with 4 pieces of masking tape so that whatever tool you are using goes over the nut and not smack dab into it.

While on the topic of nuts I've been experimenting with shims made of self-stick sandpaper or thin pieces of wood but was looking for an easier solution to raise nut slots that are too low a little bit (usually necessary if you refret with taller frets.) Sprinkling a little baking soda into the nut slot and then adding a tiny drop of CA glue seems to work fine at least until it wears down from the string rubbing back and forth, at which time I could repeat the process. One person mentioned using acrylic nail powder and liquid which I tried last night but it wasn't very resilient. The original suggestion was to use what dentists use for fillings of back teeth (where I come from we call them "molars".) All I want for Christmas is my 8 back teeth?

It looks like Jet Acrylic denture repair powder and liquid might be what I am looking for but at $38 I need to investigate it further.

Jet Acrylic 2oz Powder Lang 69 | eBay

Jet Acrylic 4oz Liquid Lang | eBay

Here is a StewMac video on using CA and baking soda (or bone dust) to fill nut slots

Here is a video that shows how NOT to use CA glue and baking soda in filling gaps in models (Note to ModelMan Tom: they do make nitrile gloves which you might want to use when rubbing CA and baking soda with your fingers.)

Tricks: Baking Soda and CA Glue - YouTube

Tricks: Baking Soda and CA Glue - YouTube OUCH!!!


Steve Ahola

[David King]

Great thread Steve. Supposedly the ultimate fret cutting pliers are the Starrett music wire cutters that piano techs use. They have resharpenable, replaceable jaws. I see them on ebay all the time for around $30-40 bucks. You want the Starrett #1X 7". List price is over $300. The carbide jaw version is probably overkill.

[tedmich]

Cooper Hand Tools Crescent GT28CN Carbide Cutting Nippers are only $36!

(I have a pair on the way and will post a review)

They are for tiles and may require some cutting edge work with a few diamond stones...
gotta wear goggles when used as carbide is brittle...

[John_H]

Tile nippers don't normally close all of the way, and are unusable for cutting wire, or frets.

[tedmich]

Doh!

[John_H]

Yeah, bummer. Maybe they'll let you exchange them. I've got this from Klein 8'' (203 mm) End-Cutting Pliers - D232-8 | Klein Tools - For Professionals since 1857

They've held up for years, have good leverage, and cut pretty clean. I've used them for SS cable.

For pulling frets I have some cheap cutters that I ground down.

[David King]

Of the re-ground ones I have the TrueValue brand ones are holding up a lot better than the Crescent ones which seem to be much more brittle.

I've found that for pulling frets the smaller the better and I have a very inexpensive 4" pair of end nippers from China that I reground an NEVER use for cutting anything, just for lifting frets. The narrower head works much better with radiused fingerboards and the lighter weight means I can pull frets all day (god forbid) and not get tired.

[Steve A.]

Tile nippers don't normally close all of the way, and are unusable for cutting wire, or frets.

I was just checking them out at Home Depot a few days ago and yes they don't close all of the way. For cutting fret ends you want the head to be small enough to fit between at least the first 12 frets. After that you can go every other one at an angle which will give clearance for most of the rest of the frets. The DeWalt compound snips work great in saving wear and tear on the $28 nippers from StewMac- and can reach most of the upper frets; the cut is not as clean as the SM nippers but the suckers are strong! Frets.com recommended diagonal pliers to keep the fret ends from flying around but the DeWalt was shooting them all over the room, almost like a pellet gun...

Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

I've found that for pulling frets the smaller the better and I have a very inexpensive 4" pair of end nippers from China that I reground an NEVER use for cutting anything, just for lifting frets. The narrower head works much better with radiused fingerboards and the lighter weight means I can pull frets all day (god forbid) and not get tired.

I got a set of Irwin nippers labeled "ViseGrip" for about $14 which have worked even better than the StewMac ones. I didn't grind the top of the jaws very even but one of the sides is absolutely great for starting the frets. I labeled it so I know which side to use. Once started I use the fret "pry bar" mentioned in an earlier post. Right now about half of my fret pulling is for fret jobs that didn't turn out as good as I would have liked. Yes, I am getting a LOT of practice working on 8 or 9 of my guitars so far.

Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

Tip #1 for today: I have been scratching up LP tailpiece posts for 45 years now using a regular slotted screwdriver. (I eventually figured out that a stubby screwdriver was less likely to slip and damage the body.) StewMac has that special tool for something like $35 - ouch! So why not just wrap the screwdriver tip with duct tape? Maybe even the aluminum foil duct tape. I do wonder if there is a drag link socket that would fit the slot...

Tip #2: Measuring fret height with regular digital calipers is a crap shoot because the tip will sink into the nooks and crannies. I just bought another one from Harbor Freight which I will modify to make better measurements. A flat foot on the end of the height measuring tip would keep it out of the valleys. Being digital the calipers reset themselves to 0.000" when you turn them on which should eliminate all of that troublesome math. I was thinking of drilling a small hole in the flat end of the tip and inserting a piece of a needle crosswise and then adding a small dab of epoxy.

Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

#1. I have a better idea for measuring fret height with digital calipers. I was looking at a picture of one at StewMac and noticed a little semi- circular notch right on the end of the caliper body. On the $10 model from HF I would need to cut off the little indented piece at the end of the depth gauge. I think that idea might have been from Frank Ford...
EDIT: It works! The StewMac calipers also have a small notch in the fixed jaw for measuring crown height of loose fretwire.

#2. LMI sells a pair of clips to hold the strings away from the neck for minor fret repairs. They are made of a springy metal and are rubber coated where they would touch the neck. ~$8 for the pair. (I had been loosening strings and then securing them to the back of the neck with masking tape.) You might want to secure the clips to the back of the neck so they don't move around.
EDIT 01/30/2015: It is StewMac that sells these. They call them string spreaders and the new and improved price for 2015 is $9.95.
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools..._Set_of_2.html

#3. For masking off fretboards order the ~3/4" 3M masking tape from Amazon for under $5 to supplement the ~1" tape that you can get at Home Depot (the narrower tape is a special order item.)
EDIT 01/30/2015: None of the videos I've watched show the blue painters masking tape on fretboards so I decided to try the old-fashioned tan-colored masking tape. It is thinner and has a smoother texture which I like for taping frets but for other luthier uses like protecting finished bodies and neck the modern blue tape is better. (3M does make a blue masking tape "for delicate finishes" which is thinner and also even smoother than the old-school tan tape.)

#4. Remember the stretchy capos used on acoustic guitars around the campfire back in the 60's? They sell for ~$3 nowadaŭs and are perfect for checking neck relief by putting them on the 1st fret. Hold down the highest fret with your right hand and measure the clearance between the string and the fretwire at the 8th or 9th fret. Gibson says to look for something like .010" on their new guitars...
EDIT: I have been experimenting with bridge height and truss rod tension; it seems like there is a magic setting probably different for each guitar which sounds and plays really well. So setting the truss rod for a specific measurement of neck relief at a particular fret may not always be the optimum setting for you. (This assumes that you have already leveled the neck.)

[Kobaia]

The fret puller included in this kit at eBay is total junk*** - I ended up getting a real one from StewMac. However the fret lifter is pretty cool once you get a fret started with the StewMac fret puller- I figure that it saves wear and tear on the StewMac puller.

*** I may be able to make it work better using my grinder to reshape the head.

Steve A.

The "real" fret puller is a tidy scam on the part of Stewmac. I purchased a generic £2.50 'end nipper' tool off Ebay and ground the end flat. Mine was a generic Chinese tool that happens to be the same red/black configuration as the Stewmac part. Fancy that!

I'm not convinced heating frets does a lot of good either, from personal experience. I've done a bunch of fretless conversions for bass buddies and my own amusement, and I stopped heating frets pretty quickly.

[Steve A.]

The "real" fret puller is a tidy scam on the part of Stewmac. I purchased a generic £2.50 'end nipper' tool off Ebay and ground the end flat. Mine was a generic Chinese tool that happens to be the same red/black configuration as the Stewmac part. Fancy that!

I tried a cheap fret puller on eBay which mangled frets so I went ahead and bought the overpriced one from StewMac that did show me how the jaws need to be ground. In retrospect I should have just looked at, took pictures and returned it for credit towards more worthwhile tools.

The $8.95 ones from LMII look like a really good deal...

http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-s...g/fret-pullers

I'm not convinced heating frets does a lot of good either, from personal experience. I've done a bunch of fretless conversions for bass buddies and my own amusement, and I stopped heating frets pretty quickly.

In my very limited testing it seemed like there were fewer fretboard chips when heating the frets. I think it might be more of a help if the frets were glued in. I've been using Franklin liquid hide glue as I am learning the art of refretting and have had a lot of "do overs" (do the math- 12 refret jobs on 6 guitars ) Looking at the tangs of the pulled frets I can see how the heat has softened tbe glue for easier removal.

So rather than asking "why" I ask myself "why the hell not?"

Steve A.

P.S. Anybody here have any idea how many new guitars have the frets glued in? I think that if the fret tangs are a perfect match for the fret slots there is less of a need for glue. However that is not usually the case with refret jobs so I figure I might as well use the liquid hide glue.