Nut angle/ sustain.

[dmartn149]

Somehow I interpreted that the "string end" in question was implied to be the bridge for the purposes of my response.

Right, That is what I thought you meant. My point is that if the nut is too far from the 1st fret, then in order for it to intonate right at 12, the bridge saddle has to be farther back than it would be otherwise. Intonation @ 12 would be on, but the guitar wouldn't play in tune, anywhere else.

thing. Its an absolute SOD I want to spend no more time on. I want to throw it in the river

Maybe you should just trade it in, or sell it.

[Sea Chief]

Right, That is what I thought you meant. My point is that if the nut is too far from the 1st fret, then in order for it to intonate right at 12, the bridge saddle has to be farther back than it would be otherwise. Intonation @ 12 would be on, but the guitar wouldn't play in tune, anywhere else.

Maybe you should just trade it in, or sell it.

Yup I think so. Shame Ive always wanted an SG.. those sounds indellibly in my head from all those Lps from LZ (prob 1 solo but -that- SG woody sound) to fugazi, sebadoh.. I so love the sound of a proper SG. This just aint a real Sg IMO with this sluggish dead weight & f*kawful p'ups. A real SG is light & resonant with crisp chimey p'ups.. and cost £850.

[Chuck H]

I think we've all had a story like this. Truth! Sometimes even if you try before you buy!?! Maybe a guitar "feels" just right and you think you'll get the rest sorted out. Then you try and it either doesn't work like you hoped after three hundred clams in pickups and multiple rewirings OR by the time you sort out what you want tonewise with some mechanical changes the feel is gone. Mostly it happens with mail order though. I probably have a half dozen guitar and amp ventures like that. I usually just F with them until there's a low resale value and then give the piece of crap to someone I know that says they like it anyway. But poor Sea Chief... Not a guy who intentionally goes through a lot of gear and here he is facing this turd sandwich. Yum!

Dump it. Recover what you can if you want to. Put that down on an SG you try before buying and already love.

On a similar note... I recently scored a really nice (to me) LP Special because I knew a guy that had two. The one he never played was pretty different in feel and tone from what one usually expects from these guitars. You know. With a soft attack and ultra low action but somehow it magically sustains anyway like it has built in compression! The one my guy kept is the epitome of this. The one I got is comparably bouncy and lively. This requires a little more action height to avoid audible fret rattle but we're talking a difference of 7/128ths" vs. 3/64" so it's still plenty low. He couldn't wait to be rid of it and he knew I loved it the first time I played it. So I was first in line Mine now! Someone else can have it when I'm dead. This is the advantage of try before you buy. You know wayyy better than a notion of a type of guitar if the one in your hands has whatever is "IT" for you.

[Sea Chief]

Theres so liitle chance of try before buy with me tho. All I know are trendy types who snigger at anyone who plays electric gtrs still, thinking I wail away at solos or 'rock out'.. arty f*ks basically (who secretly like the stones, prob site Beefheart as an idol, & oh dig Deerhoof to the hilt Id bet my btm dollar too). No one I know plays. 1 small gtr shop within 40m which is only open to order so few folks use it now, & its overpriced. Id need a day in denmark street, W1 ('gtr shop alley' where pistols rehersed in 76, & coincidentally I sold an SG std 20 yrs ago). 180 round trip carrying a £500 gtr back on public transport. You see why buying blind has its place (& if I fluke a neck fitting lika a glove, why Ive been desperate to try sort it).

Anyway a link to a band called shatner's bassoon seems best way to sign off for tonight (click on the song LHS) https://shatnersbassoonband.bandcamp.com/

Cheers, SC

[Chuck H]

Anyway a link to a band called shatner's bassoon seems best way to sign off for tonight (click on the song LHS) https://shatnersbassoonband.bandcamp.com/

Cheers, SC

Someone should be slapped by a man for that. And not with a hand! For some reason I'm feeling a need to kill the phonies and shoot John Lennon now!?!

[Dave H]

I dont trust gibson QC thesedays. Fenders Ive had have all been much better.

Perhaps that is because Fenders have a longer scale so there is more room for error in fret position.

[somebodyelseuk]

Theres so liitle chance of try before buy with me tho. All I know are trendy types who snigger at anyone who plays electric gtrs still, thinking I wail away at solos or 'rock out'.. arty f*ks basically (who secretly like the stones, prob site Beefheart as an idol, & oh dig Deerhoof to the hilt Id bet my btm dollar too). No one I know plays. 1 small gtr shop within 40m which is only open to order so few folks use it now, & its overpriced. Id need a day in denmark street, W1 ('gtr shop alley' where pistols rehersed in 76, & coincidentally I sold an SG std 20 yrs ago). 180 round trip carrying a £500 gtr back on public transport. You see why buying blind has its place (& if I fluke a neck fitting lika a glove, why Ive been desperate to try sort it).

Anyway a link to a band called shatner's bassoon seems best way to sign off for tonight (click on the song LHS) https://shatnersbassoonband.bandcamp.com/

Cheers, SC

Okay, so you're 90 miles from London and in the middle of nowhere? East Anglia?
For what it's worth, if you don't mind doing a set up and a bit of fret dressing, I would flog the SG and seriously give consideration to a 'Vintage VS6'. You'll pick a used one up for peanuts on ebay and be blown away by how good they actually are. They're distributed by JHS, have Wilkinson hardware. The setups are crap and the drets tend to need work, but even if you pay someone to sort that out, you end up with a very good guitar for a lot less dough than the real thing.
I have a 'Peter Green Les Paul' copy by them here at the moment. Neck's too thin for me, but the sound, playability... it's there. The old man has borrowed a 'Hendrix-a-like' Strat by them for a back up. He prefers it to his Fender, and he plays Shadows covers!

[Sea Chief]

I honestly dont think the frets are anything other than perfectly positioned: if you look at the modern method of factories cutting the slots eg gibson, theyre computer measured with100% no room for error re relative position to each other and to the nut slot.

The only thing I think poss therefore is the frets themselves: tho they look pretty good to me & only 7 years old.

Is it true these are 'jumbo' frets on SG specials? I seem to remember a lovely '83 strat I had (still think about!) which was defo smoother playing/ IE fingers running up down fretboard. Im sure the frets had less H. These seem more sensible esp with lighter guage strings, IE less 'press' distance. Whether the fret H has anything to do with my odd intonation spots is speculating tho.

[Dave H]

Your lovely Strat reminds me of me of my lovely ex girlfriend. We always dream of the one that got away

What string gauge are you using? I can just about play in tune with 10s on a Strat. I'd have no chance with 9s and jumbo frets on a Gibson.

[Sea Chief]

Okay, so you're 90 miles from London and in the middle of nowhere? East Anglia?
For what it's worth, if you don't mind doing a set up and a bit of fret dressing, I would flog the SG and seriously give consideration to a 'Vintage VS6'. You'll pick a used one up for peanuts on ebay and be blown away by how good they actually are. They're distributed by JHS, have Wilkinson hardware. The setups are crap and the drets tend to need work, but even if you pay someone to sort that out, you end up with a very good guitar for a lot less dough than the real thing.
I have a 'Peter Green Les Paul' copy by them here at the moment. Neck's too thin for me, but the sound, playability... it's there. The old man has borrowed a 'Hendrix-a-like' Strat by them for a back up. He prefers it to his Fender, and he plays Shadows covers!

Gloucs/ warks border. Maybe bristols then but never been or know for gtr shops.

Good point. Actually Im thinking total change: ditch SG, & get a used Lp GT from this Vintage Co (couldnt have an SG copy after the "real thing" I'll just be unhappy) with stacked P90 things /gotta be less bass fud than this.. & for gtr 1 a japan made (I trust their workmanship more than US after this gtr now- sorry US!) used fender mustang RI. If goes well + a fine SG case to sell, I might be only needing £50 odd. Love a mustang me. 3 Ive heard live via fenders or boogies & they all had major tone mojo (sebadoh, mudhoney, ween). Short scale fun too.

dig, if you will/ skip to 2.00 for major mustang mojo (or duosonic?) into a cranked boogie, I assume. Hail the boognish!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzYykIA1xVg

SC

[Sea Chief]

Your lovely Strat reminds me of me of my lovely ex girlfriend. We always dream of the one that got away

What string gauge are you using? I can just about play in tune with 10s on a Strat. I'd have no chance with 9s and jumbo frets on a Gibson.

It was a babe yes & an oddie too, a mustard '83 (usa) transition one with std cut-price gtr input into front/ not usual angle chrome job. Bought for £325 in 91, prob worth £800 now godammit. Played & sounded like a dream: traded it in for a brown mint '78 Gibson 335 mind you (£395 inc case!! argh!!). Traded that for fk knows what for £350 odd. Thats prob worth £1500 now. how depressing. both were superb. I was very stoned back then see.

[dmartn149]

It was a babe yes & an oddie too, a mustard '83 (usa) transition one with std cut-price gtr input into front/ not usual angle chrome job.

I had one of those once. Two knobs, and the output jack where the third knob should be. It had an awful German made trem, but a really great neck. Wish I would have kept it.

[Sea Chief]

Thats it two knobs & the neck was superb. If only Id kept those gtrs.. I never considered they were VG investments.

[guitician]

Fret positions should be done with the utmost precision. Major manufacturers use a saw with separate blades for all the intervals and are very precise. I doubt that the fretboard is wrong on any guitar made by any U.S. maker, or their overseas div. FretCalcGraphic18rule

[Chuck H]

Here's a YT of the Gibson factory. The part we need to know about is from 13:00 to 16:00. Notice that on the fret slot arbors the nut end looks to have a deeper saw blade for a precision cut on that interval as well. Unless that's not a saw blade but a stop and unless there is additional hand sanding of that end before nut installation I should think there's very little possibility of error.