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Please everyone, whats your opinion or take on this

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  • Please everyone, whats your opinion or take on this

    I read this at another forum. I wont mention the author nor where it came from. Personally I thinks it's a big ol pile of hype..Opinions please...


    Quote:
    "The Keystone neck without the cover is very much like a strat sound."

    That's because Bill has factored in the inductive effect of the metallurgy incorporated in the pickup cover. Remove it, and you compromise the design.

    Most pickup manufacturers, wind their pickups and place a chrome plated brass cover over it, often purchasing them when ever and where ever they can be found, with little or no consideration of what the metal does to the sound.

    Many are of the opinion that since brass is non-ferrous, and non magnetic, it will have no effect on the voice of the pickup; nothing could be further from scientific fact. Even Stainless steel, which some use, can impute it’s effect on the sound ranging from completely neutral in some alloys, to grossly overpowering, as can your choice of shielding material.

    More applied science goes into the pickup leads on Bill’s pickups than most manufacturers incorporate in the total electrical design running the gamut from the plucked string to the moving voice cone in the speaker.

    The Keystone is the product of a specific mathematical formula(s), as are all of Bill’s pickups. When you remove the cover, you no longer have a Keystone, you have a modified whatever.

    It is the application of considerable research into the manufacturing that has delayed the new pickups. Bill is a perfectionist, it’s either correct, or it’s rubbish, there is no middle ground, that because the pickup is produced on a Scientific Calculator before wire ever gets wrapped around magnets.

    When I spoke to Bill Saturday, he was in the process of correcting an issue resulting from his tool and die maker’s faux pas. The new stuff should be on the way about now.

    The reason Bill’s pickups tend to be quieter than others that seem similar in construction is his understanding of how RF interference interacts with the electro magnetic substance of the pickups. He simply designs around the noise. Wait till you “don’t” hear the new stuff.

  • #2
    My problem with it is the slag on other makers. I'd say almost all makers care deeply about the covers and dont just use whatever they can get thier hands on. Those who can afford it make thier own, those who do not use the best they can get. I've had several conversations with Jason L. about covers and the work that he has put into getting good covers is amazing.

    I know I have looked through 15 different covers to settle on one that I like. I've tested Schallers, DMC, Allparts, etc... I'm not in production yet, and I wont untill I have the right cover. Or I'll produce a coverless pickup first

    Comment


    • #3
      willi lorenz stich

      guys been around a long time and proved himself and isn't a lot of this buisness about hype, he isn't realy slagging anybody, just everyone elses methods. Not much different from saying I am the best really. Time will tell.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by madialex View Post
        Quote:
        "The Keystone neck without the cover is very much like a strat sound."
        The question is; what does a Tele neck pickup sound like without a cover?

        I would think it sounds similar to a Strat. They aren't made all that differently.

        One thing about Bill, he makes bright sounding pickups preciously because he's concerned with eddy currents and such.
        It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


        http://coneyislandguitars.com
        www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

        Comment


        • #5
          ...

          Well Bill is talking about cheap Korean/Chinese stuff, yeah they throw anything on there, brass. But the serious companies and boutique guys know better and are always concerned about this. You do have to design with the cover in mind, and don't forget, vintage authentic tele covers WERE MADE OF BRASS. So I guess this makes Leo an idiot right? No, they designed with the cover on. Brass is not bad, its how you use it, used wrongly it will kill the tone....
          http://www.SDpickups.com
          Stephens Design Pickups

          Comment


          • #6
            My reply was, show me a scientific calculator that will tell me what a pickup will sound like...And I will buy one as would a lot of winders.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, hype. When someone talks about RF (radio frequency interference) as a significant issue rather than electric fields and magnetic fields relating to the power line frequency (and harmonics) you know it is hype.

              Lead wires? The pickup has a resistance of several thousand ohms. The leads wires have a fraction of an ohm. How can this matter? Make a good solder joint; that will be good enough.

              Comment


              • #8
                Please, please, please, can I take all the folks who write advertising copy, line them up and give them all just one good smack?

                FWIW, a lot of Tele neck pickups sound different without the cover. How? They make NO sound, because the tabs on the cover tore the coil on the way off.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe he feels he needs to alert people to the R&D he's put in over the years. Maybe sales are falling. Maybe there's some sour grapes going on.

                  There are many people claiming to have done all this R&D who either haven't done anything of the sort or who have gleaned their info from other pickup makers. It amazes me sometimes how many pickup makers there are and they've all discovered something that nobody else knows.
                  sigpic Dyed in the wool

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Spence, you'll be happy to know I haven't discovered a damn thing
                    www.chevalierpickups.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are we talking about Bill Lawrence?

                      If you read a few of his patents, you see very precise details about stuff like the thickness of the wall between stacked coils and such. Also as far as I know, he hasn't used all the stuff he's patented.

                      So this shows that he does experiment quite a bit and comes up with things he finds interesting, and then tweaks the design to get the results he wants. That sounds like R&D to me, but not in the sense of trying to find the best PAF or Strat tone, more about trying new things.

                      Few of his pickups use forms exactly common to Fender or Gibson, besides fitting into their routs. The L-250 "small humbucker" is a perfect example. Who else made a side-winder Strat pickup?

                      Also, I think the Fender SCN pickups show that he had to have tried quite a few ideas before settling on that design. The "moderator bars" on the magets shows he had to come up with something so he could use the SC magnets without just sticking them in the coil.

                      But I think the quote above is from someone who's not speaking for Bill, and probably doesn't understand much of what he's been told.

                      I really doubt Bill would worry about RF interference. I had read him talking about the "micro coil" pickups picking up less noise because the coil is smaller, and that makes perfect sense.
                      It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                      http://coneyislandguitars.com
                      www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
                        Are we talking about Bill Lawrence?

                        I had read him talking about the "micro coil" pickups picking up less noise because the coil is smaller, and that makes perfect sense.
                        If it is magnetic hum fields that are the concern, he has to explain why it would pickup less of that, but still pickup as much from the field of the vibrating string.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh, dont get me wrong on this, I'm not dissing Bill. It is just this kind of babble that gets out on the net that makes the other 99% of winders look like they dont have a clue. I know Bill did not write this, just a fanatic customer or a rouge employee who is clueless and trying to make Bills sound like he invented pickups or something and every other winder in the world is a dunce...

                          I know Bill is a smart guy and knows more about most things about pickups than i'll ever dream of knowing, so again, this is not about Bill or making him look bad...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ...

                            Leads ARE important, they are part of your guitar's wiring. You wouldn't put cloth covered push back wire leads strat-style on a bucker would you? Wire a strat with 28 gauge hook up wire, then wire it with fatter 22 gauge tinned push back cloth wire. You'll probably hear a difference. Cheap guitars have cheap shielded cable and too much excess wire, if you swap it out for Gibson style braided vintage wire you easily hear more clarity. I know a pro player who wired his guitar with some super expensive pure copper cable, ridiculously expensive but he loved it. He also tried fine silver (.999 pure) and didn't like that at all. To me it seems overkill but he records and plays concerts, has way better ears than most cats or dogs I know :-)

                            Why does a cover make a difference. Even though its not magnetic it creates eddy currents and being so close to magnetic poles there is a microphonic effect created. In a good way it makes the pickup a little more livelier, a hollow kind of tone, sorta vocal like, in a bad way if you play really loud the cover squeals. Take it off and the tone of pickup will change.
                            http://www.SDpickups.com
                            Stephens Design Pickups

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Possum View Post
                              Leads ARE important, they are part of your guitar's wiring. You wouldn't put cloth covered push back wire leads strat-style on a bucker would you?
                              If it did make a difference, would it be an improvement? Why not?

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