paf specificiation (details)

[PAF-Boy]

I do not think the machine and coil-shape are the main thing wehn it comes to PAF -Tone.
There are some builders that nail the PAF tone with home made machines,auto traverse or handwound and there are may otheres using the PAF therm wich do not get that TONE !
Whatever machine you use, it does not matter if you do not archieve the PAF Tone.

[clown_luthier]

correct me if this is not ok please, just checking:


so on old pafs there was only 2 wires (+ and -)?
can i simply use this kind of wire (5950):


#5953 is on new pickups?
i think there in 50s weren't 4-conductor wires on pafs right?

[guitician]

You want the coils to be out of phase to cancel hum. The push back wire is what is used on PAF's. Just solder the shield braid to ground just after inserting it into the hole all the way against the edge of the base plate.

[clown_luthier]

You want the coils to be out of phase to cancel hum.

Thanx, so i must wire it like this (serial not paralel):

The push back wire is what is used on PAF's. Just solder the shield braid to ground just after inserting it into the hole all the way against the edge of the base plate.

Thanx

[guitician]

Yeah, one finish wire for Ground and the other finish for the HOT lead.

[clown_luthier]

Yeah, one finish wire for Ground and the other finish for the HOT lead.

Thanx a lot guys, sorry for dumb questions
i will just wind 1 pair for fun

[JGundry]

I do not think the machine and coil-shape are the main thing wehn it comes to PAF -Tone.
There are some builders that nail the PAF tone with home made machines,auto traverse or handwound and there are may otheres using the PAF therm wich do not get that TONE !
Whatever machine you use, it does not matter if you do not archieve the PAF Tone.

Part of "THAT" tone is in machine winding. The boutique guys that machine wind PAF style pickups know this. Coil shape is important with machine winding partly because it creates a wire scatter that is driven by the coil shape as it builds. Trying to get the same tone with the same coil shape by and winding is impossible. A person just cannot duplicate the relentless traverse with all of the quirks that go along with a vintage coil winder.

[kevinT]

Part of "THAT" tone is in machine winding. The guys that machine wind know this.

+1. What's more is if you add tension to the equation, with a tensioning device that provides consistant tension, the end result will be tone that is unique and can't be replicated by hand or even by the same machine.

Tension, in this equation, plays a big factor in tone. I use felt clamps, as well as a Tanac tensioner and used them separately and together and if someone tells you that tension doesn't play a big factor in tone they're fibbing to ya.

And I'm not talking about a lot of tension which ends up stretching the wire and incresing the dcr and altering tone. I'm talkin' just small amounts. I can hear the difference.

Coil shape is important with machine winding partly because it creates a wire scatter that is driven by the coil. Trying to get the same tone with the same coil shape by and winding is impossible. A person just cannot duplicate the relentless traverse with all of the quirks that go along with a vintage coil winder.

If you think about it, the bottom line is that even a CNC coil winder lays magnet wire in a random scatter. As I've preached before, when it comes to a CNC coil winder, it doesn't lay the wire as precisily as you think and contrary to what many hand winders justify in there sales pitch....the sterile mass produced machine wound pickups

[PAF-Boy]

Part of "THAT" tone is in machine winding. The boutique guys that machine wind PAF style pickups know this. Coil shape is important with machine winding partly because it creates a wire scatter that is driven by the coil shape as it builds. Trying to get the same tone with the same coil shape by and winding is impossible. A person just cannot duplicate the relentless traverse with all of the quirks that go along with a vintage coil winder.

I saw pics of PAF coils on a web-site that showed many different styles of coil shapes wound on one of that magic machines.

My impression: wehn you say that man can not recreate a coil by handwinding or wind the same coil twice by hand so you need a magic machine doing this for you ?

Sounds a bit like Monty Python, dosen´t it ?

[JGundry]

I saw pics of PAF coils on a web-site that showed many different styles of coil shapes wound on one of that magic machines.

My impression: wehn you say that man can not recreate a coil by handwinding or wind the same coil twice by hand so you need a magic machine doing this for you ?

Sounds a bit like Monty Python, dosen´t it ?

That's my web site with the pictures. I guarantee it is impossible to wind a coil by hand that will have the same internal winding pattern and external shape as the machine wound coils on my site. You could duplicate the shape of a few of them but the internal winding pattern will be radically different.

I agree that it is possible to create a hand winding pattern and routine and make it repeatable. Hand winding is not magic and neither is machine winding. It is just not possible to duplicate the mechanics of machine winding by hand. This is not a knock against hand winding. It is just the way it is when it comes to hand winding vs. machine winding.

[Chadheckler1]

correct me if this is not ok please, just checking:


so on old pafs there was only 2 wires (+ and -)?
can i simply use this kind of wire (5950):


#5953 is on new pickups?
i think there in 50s weren't 4-conductor wires on pafs right?

The diagram above is incorrect if you wind both coils in the same direction like most people do (I could be wrong that "Most" people do, be that is what I do) If you wind both coils the same direction you want the end of each coil to be connected... Either way you do it, one coil must be reverse wound and opposite polarity with the other so that they are IN phase.

[PAF-Boy]

Funny,
that it was your web site with those coils- small wwweb
A friend posted me a Tone Quest Report last week and if I remember it right Tom Holmes and or Will BoX and some more winders interviewed said that they are getting that tone by hand guiding the wire in their pickups.
So it can not be that main thing wehn it comes down to THAT PAF Tone.

[JGundry]

Funny,
that it was your web site with those coils- small wwweb
A friend posted me a Tone Quest Report last week and if I remember it right Tom Holmes and or Will BoX and some more winders interviewed said that they are getting that tone by hand guiding the wire in their pickups.
So it can not be that main thing wehn it comes down to THAT PAF Tone.

I think it's great that other maker's are happy with the results they get from hand wind a PAF style pickup. Some people think the method of winding does not matter at all. IMO, for PAF's, the winding method matters. Original production PAF's were all machine wound. I wind mine the same way that Gibson did. I use the same winder models, tension and patterns that Gibson used. One of my machines was actually made, owned and used by Gibson to wind PAF's.

[PAF-Boy]

I think it's great that other maker's are happy with the results they get from hand wind a PAF style pickup. Some people think the method of winding does not matter at all. IMO, for PAF's, the winding method matters. Original production PAF's were all machine wound. I wind mine the same way that Gibson did. I use the same winder models, tension and patterns that Gibson used. One of my machines was actually made, owned and used by Gibson to wind PAF's.

Do your pickups sound like a Gibson PAF, do they have that special tone ?

[belwar]

Funny,
that it was your web site with those coils- small wwweb
A friend posted me a Tone Quest Report last week and if I remember it right Tom Holmes and or Will BoX and some more winders interviewed said that they are getting that tone by hand guiding the wire in their pickups.
So it can not be that main thing wehn it comes down to THAT PAF Tone.

A machine wind is a necessary part of the equation in my opinion. Sure you can do good, even amazing hand winds. but for that PAF tone I think part of your equation has to be machine winding if you plan on making lots of them. There are lots of other factors though... What size bobbin are you using? What alloy slugs / Screws? What variety of magnet and where did it come from? How much tension? What diameter of wire? What purity of copper? How thick of a cover?

... and most important WHAT tone? No one agrees on THAT tone. There is no such thing. Your description of THAT tone may be totally different from mine. That's the thing about PAF's is there is no consistancy ... OTHER than they were machine wound.