Dark Star Bass pickup info?

[CheshireCat]

Main "body" of the bobbin made from scrap hardwood (walnut IIRC) and top made of pick guard material to match the guitar the pickups were made for. Glue together. Aluminium adjustment tabs glued to the bottom of the magnets instead of original press fit brass. Covers form some GFS or other cheepo "fake" Dearmond copy. Wind. Assemble. Test drive. Whoaa, great sound. If the look is your primary driver, do whatever you want for the pickup design. If the sound is your driver, forget about humbucking and altering the design (the magnet/pole/slug/coil set up etc...)

Looks excellent! Thanks for the pics!

Well, I was kinda doing a Billy Sheehan type of thing, and then ran across the Dark Star, and thought that would be perfect. I figured it was humbucking when I saw it, but upon discovering it wasn't, my mind started brainstorming.

How useful are the height adjusters?

Chesh

[Peter Naglitsch]

Well, they do make it possible to adjust the output for each individual string, to balance the output. Is it necessary? Well, there are people that swear by the old, non staggered poles on a vintage Tele bridge pickup and wouldn't use a staggered pickup even if they were paid to do so, and there are others that can’t live without a pickup with staggered poles. The same with humbuckers. There are some that adjust them in a very specific and just so pattern, others make them conform to the radius of the fretboard and some leave them flat...

[CheshireCat]

Well, they do make it possible to adjust the output for each individual string, to balance the output. Is it necessary? Well, there are people that swear by the old, non staggered poles on a vintage Tele bridge pickup and wouldn't use a staggered pickup even if they were paid to do so, and there are others that can’t live with a pickup with staggered poles. The same with humbuckers. There are some that adjust them in a very specific and just so pattern, others make them conform to the radius of the fretboard and some leave them flat...

Very interesting!

Incidentally, while those pole pieces appear to be steel slugs, do they make magnet pole pieces that size?

Chesh

[David Schwab]

What in particular? The humcancelling aspect of it, or the fact that I would be doing a different base design other than the P-90 type set-up? (I'm assuming the latter.) As long as it sounds good, I'm flexible with the sound.

Both.

Hammon had all the parts custom made? Bummer. Any idea where I could source a chrome bezel similar to the one he uses? It doesn't have to be an exact match, but something evocative of it would work. (And, whatever it is, it didn't have to start life as a chrome pickup bezel or cover.)

Also, do you know if he still sells his pickups to the public, or is he exclusively OEM?

Chesh

Ive never seen any similar parts for sale.

He does sell directly to the public, but I have heard he has been on hiatus for a while. But shoot him an email and see.

[David Schwab]

Not sure about that. One magnet looks a bit distorted. It could be the pic, if you are referring to that bar magnet.

He said he HAS ONE. So he knows it's not the photo.

Incidentally, I'm not sure if Lakland is even carrying dark stars anymore. They now have "chi-sonics" and dark stars are nowhere to be seen anywhere on their site, or on their basses, for that matter. Not even as a pickup option.

Chi-sonics are made by Hanson pickups.

[belwar]

In general, I have to say its one of the most well crafted pickups i've come across (of any pickup type bass or guitar). If I cant end up making something like it myself I will definetly consider using it OEM.

[CheshireCat]

He said he HAS ONE. So he knows it's not the photo.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. Apologies to belwar.

The part I got lost on was I didn't see any particular shaping in that pic, tho, of course, I didn't/don't really know what to look for. Could you enlighten me on the curving of the magnet aspect? I've never seen anything like that before.

Chi-sonics are made by Hanson pickups.

Ah.

He does sell directly to the public, but I have heard he has been on hiatus for a while. But shoot him an email and see.

I tried emailing and calling. Nothing. His voice mail is full, too, so I couldn't leave him a message.

Both.

I see. I figured deviating from the basic P-90ish set-up would change the sound, but I wasn't sure how much humbucking would change the sound, apart from not being noisy. I'm quite new to all the subtleties of pickup design in regards to tonality.

Chesh

[copperheadroads]

This certainly is an interesting design ,Id love to hear one

[CheshireCat]

This certainly is an interesting design ,Id love to hear one

That, you can. Fred has sound files on his website.

[CheshireCat]

look at the photos above, the magnets are curved on the backside

Do you mean that sort of concaved quality to the bar magnet, where the footprint is rectangular, but the profile has a concaved, curved quality? I sort of noticed that after looking more closely.

[David Schwab]

I tried emailing and calling. Nothing. His voice mail is full, too, so I couldn't leave him a message.

I've been reading reports of this on TalkBass too. Someone had heard from him however, and he said he was back from a hiatus.

I guess the demand for the pickups got overwhelming?

I see. I figured deviating from the basic P-90ish set-up would change the sound, but I wasn't sure how much humbucking would change the sound, apart from not being noisy. I'm quite new to all the subtleties of pickup design in regards to tonality.

Well changing the magnets would change the tone a bit. I seem to remember that when Rick Turner was working with these pickups for Phil Lesh and Jack Casady, he added an extra magnet. Maybe Rick will chime in if he's still around.

Making the pickup a humbucker will enhance the lows and mids and attenuate the highs slightly. But I make a humbucker that sounds very similar to a Dark Star, so it's possible.

[CheshireCat]

So, any idea if he's back in the game? Links to those TalkBass threads?

[David Schwab]

So, any idea if he's back in the game? Links to those TalkBass threads?

Whats the big deal about Darkstars? - TalkBass Forums


Club Dark Star - Page 11 - TalkBass Forums

In another thread someone posted:

Well fred has been MIA for the past 8 months or so, you will find a few threads about it if you do a search...
Dont know if hes taking a brake or decided to stop for real but hes not reachable anymore!

[CheshireCat]

Whats the big deal about Darkstars? - TalkBass Forums
Club Dark Star - Page 11 - TalkBass Forums

The plot thickens . . . the mystery continues . . .

As a pickup manufacturer, if you were to go about making something like a Dark Star, where would you start? I would think the chrome bezel would be the trickiest part, yes?

Chesh

[Marko Ursin]

I've had a few DS in my hands. From Fred's site
"Other improvements include using thinner and better insulated steel laminations in the bobbin core. I was able to put 8 laminations instead of 5 in the same space. This is to better reduce eddy currents and hysteresis loss which can limit high frequency."

What material would you use if you tried to make a similar sounding pickup? Do the adjustable pole pieces make difference to the sound compared to just solid laminated core? I remember reading that DS has 42 wire and 6,5kOhm resistance.
I'm planning to try to make a pickup with DS-like core, magnets and coil shape but without adjustable poles or chrome cover. Any help with core material would be nice. For magnets C5 or A5 blocks were used. From Fred's site again

"The red DeArmond Starfire you see in the website photo has ceramic V magnets instead of alnico V. Originaly I had 2 mags in the neck DS and 2 in the bridge DS. The pull was so strong at the neck (normal pole piece height) that the flux did stop the string literally! It stopped the string and left these awfull harmonic overtones....bletch! I ended up taking one bar mag out of that DS and the bass sounds fine now. The alnicos don't have that problem. In fact you're going to notice INCREASED sustain due to the iron content of the DS. The 8 steel laminations saturate and release the energy slowly. This is what gives the DS it's unique sound."
Marko