How thin can you go

[Peter Naglitsch]

I don't know if this have been covered earlier, but I was winding a pickup last night with a 0.050 mm polysol wire (44 AWG substitute, Slightly thinner but readily availible "over here") and started to think: What is the thinnest wire anyone of you guys have ever used. The reason I started to think about this was that it took me several attemts (first time using this wire) to get te knack on how to not constantly breaking the wire. The resistance from the wire running against the mould joint line on the plastic coil (whatever that is called in English, hope at least someone understand what I'm talkin about) made the wire break. And I was barely touching the wire with my fingers, not pinching it at all. If I did, the wire woudl break instantly. So what is really the thinnes wire somenone can hand guide onto a pickup bobbin?

[Joe Gwinn]

The resistance from the wire running against the mould joint line on the plastic coil (whatever that is called in English, hope at least someone understand what I'm talking about) made the wire break

It's called mold parting line flash or mold flash or simply flash. There are many similar terms.

Most people find it necessary to trim or sand the flash away, to ensure a perfectly smooth bobbin surface to keep the flash from cutting the wire, as you have seen.

Some people also put down a layer of tape, although this may be more to secure the winding start than to protect against flash.

[David Schwab]

I have some 46 AWG that I used on a prototype pickup. You do have to get the hang of handling it. The first time I used 44 I kept breaking it.

[tedmich]

Riken 49AWG, for a "implanted" neck pickup, a PITA for sure but the price was rights ($50 ~60000ft)

[Peter Naglitsch]

It's called mold parting line flash or mold flash or simply flash. There are many similar terms.

Thanks Joe. It was when the wire was comming off the wire spool that it got caught on the mold parting line flash, not on the bobbin. And I had already tried to sand the spool smoot, but it only made thing worse. Anyway, I flipped the spool and carefully trimmed the flash with a rasor blade. Worked better than sanding...

I cannot imagine how thin 49 AWG would be *lol*

[Bruce Johnson]

In my experience, the best way to keep the wire smoothly unreeling from the spool without it dragging on the flange is to keep some distance between the spool and first guide that the wire goes through. I have the spool mounted so that the end flange is about 12" back from the guide that leads into my tensioner, and the guide is centered right on the axis of the spool. Set up like this, the wire tends to whip around enough in the air that it doesn't touch the flange at all. Experiment with the distance from the guide to the spool to find what works best for the gauge and speed that you like to run. Too close and it will drag the flange; too far and the whipping gets too big and may break the wire.

[paulyy]

I just read a book called Guitar electronics for musicans, and they were saying that Rickenbacker Once used 54 gauge. The book says the cost made the price of the guitars so expensive that they were not competitive in the market and they say most guitar players didnt appreciate all that work. They dont say in the book what year they made the pickup or what model the guitar was. It seems 44 gauge would be a dream to work with than 54 gauge. I would go nuts tring to wind that.

[belwar]

The pickup winder I just bought was from Rod Evans who made Eliminator pickups.. They were a noiseless single coil that used four coils. Each of the coils was wound with 46 awg. I imagine if you are winding at the right speed and with the right tension, and with a good bobbin you could go as thin as you want. Not sure how good it would sound, but you could go thin.

[Possum]

...

Not everything in that book is true, 54 gauge, that really sounds impossible, is there even a 54 gauge ever made?

[SJE]

Not everything in that book is true, 54 gauge, that really sounds impossible, is there even a 54 gauge ever made?

Magnet Wire, AWG 54, (155ºC) - Worldwide Delivery of Electromechanical Components from Los Angeles, California - PlanetEgineers.com, Van Nuys, CA

That'll be the stuff! I guess you could do a 4k coil in about 200 winds with that!

I've wound AWG44 and actually found it easier than 43 . . which confused me!

The standard wind for the Bill Lawrence L500XL used by Dimebag uses 45AWG and so does the SD remake. Which I guess must be one of the thinnest wound production pickups.

[Peter Naglitsch]

In my experience, the best way to keep the wire smoothly unreeling from the spool without it dragging on the flange is to keep some distance between the spool and first guide that the wire goes through. I have the spool mounted so that the end flange is about 12" back from the guide that leads into my tensioner, and the guide is centered right on the axis of the spool. Set up like this, the wire tends to whip around enough in the air that it doesn't touch the flange at all. Experiment with the distance from the guide to the spool to find what works best for the gauge and speed that you like to run. Too close and it will drag the flange; too far and the whipping gets too big and may break the wire.

I keep the spool on the floor, and have never had any problems with the wire whiping around too much nor dragging against the flange too much. But then again this was my first run with this (aproximate) 44 wire. I'll try a shorter distance next time. 12" you say...Tnx for the tip Bruce.


54 AWG OMG, and GREEN wire. I want that. Not for your ordinary brown sound. For your green sound! lol

[David Schwab]

The standard wind for the Bill Lawrence L500XL used by Dimebag uses 45AWG and so does the SD remake. Which I guess must be one of the thinnest wound production pickups.

Bill uses some really thin wire on his new micro coil pickups too.

[Joe Gwinn]

Thanks Joe. It was when the wire was coming off the wire spool that it got caught on the mold parting line flash, not on the bobbin. And I had already tried to sand the spool smooth, but it only made thing worse. Anyway, I flipped the spool and carefully trimmed the flash with a razor blade. Worked better than sanding...

The spool. Ah. I translated plastic coil to bobbin, not spool.

Sanding the spool with too-coarse sandpaper will cause a high-drag rough spot, so I can believe that trimming the flash with a razor blade would work better.

[tedmich]

MWS makes 60awg wire (~0.00031" OD!) regularly with a huge variety of coatings, resistance ~60ohms/ft. Winders are harder to find, EB Design's microcoil winder, the Gorman 2+2 or the Ace AEX-01/2 will handle down to 0.001in (~50awg) and high rpm. Smaller size = slow speed and tiny tension (>5g!).

for guidance see J. Pizzonia's Winding ultrafine wire, IEEE, Sept.-Oct. 1994, Vol 10(5), ISSN: 0883-7554

[Peter Naglitsch]

[QUOTE=Joe Gwinn;115111]The spool. Ah. I translated plastic coil to bobbin, not spool.
QUOTE]
Sometimes it’s a PITA to type something in a foreign language and try to explain something you don't know the words for. I didn't even remember the word spool...

BTW I discovered that my problem probably wasn't primarily from the thin wire. While winding a couple of P90s last night the whole motor fixture started to wander around! The glue (yeah only glue, no screws, shame on me) had come undone. It was probably some vibration from the motor fixture falling apart that flange of the bobbin wobble thus catching the wire