PJ bass wiring problem

[Kesh]

I'm only planning on a 4 string luckily.

[David King]

Kesh, I'm going to say that the turns count will be the same as in a single coil i.e. around 8500 or so. Where it gets tricky is when you have coils of uneven length on a 5 string bass.

[Kesh]

Anyone know how many turns per coil in a split coil Jazz? and what gauge is normally used? Nordstand use 42 and 43 it seems.

[David King]

Welcome TJB!
When you got the phase straightened out was there still some hum with the VVs all the way up?

[TJBass64]

Hi all...new guy here
Had the same prob with my hobby bass...DiMarzio p (real hot) and an unknown j .had them wired with a blend pot that worked great for individual pups but the volume would cut drastically when both on .... I decided to go with the v v t wiring which lead to the same thing.... thanks for this post because it gave me reassurance that the j was wired out of phase. white wire and a red wire with a bare shielding for noise. turns out the red was hot not the white . problem solved. as for the balance issue I brought the j as high as possible and the p down to suit. great tone from this gem... ( an El Degas originally).
the whole pickguard has shield tape which really helps with the "buzz" factor
once again... thanks for the post

[David Schwab]

Whats the standard winds on the P bass pickups .. I thought I read somewhere that it is like 10K per coil of 42? If they are in series thats a 20K passive pickup.. YOWZERS.

I know nothing about these pickups but im learning about them now.

It's 10,000 turns per coil, but not 10 Kilohms per coil. The whole pickup is about 11.6 k.

Now on the other hand, the Gibson sidewinder (a.k.a. mudbucker) is about 20K!

[belwar]

Someone told me 10000 turns per coil x 2, which would give a dc res of about 14.4-15k

I dont know what I was thinking there about the 20k.. I guess I just had a brain fart.

[David King]

10 and 20K turns or ohms DCR? there's a big difference with such a small coil.

I think of the first commercially successful PJ bass as the Guild Pilot bass from the mid 1980s. It came loaded with active EMGs for a time. Were there others before then?

[belwar]

Whats the standard winds on the P bass pickups .. I thought I read somewhere that it is like 10K per coil of 42? If they are in series thats a 20K passive pickup.. YOWZERS.

I know nothing about these pickups but im learning about them now.

[David Schwab]

I've got two questions:
1. would this same delema occur in a guitar with a s/s/h configuration assuming there is a switch to activate both neck and bridge pickups? I never thought about it before but I guess one coil of the humbucker would be out of phase with the single coil.

What cancels noise, is noise. The humnbucker is presenting a composite signal of both coils in phase with each other in regards to the strings. It's not "seen" as two coils to another single coil, one in and one out of phase, just as one in phase pickup. There is no hum in the HB signal, so it wont hum cancel with another single coil. But you might hear less hum because of the signal to noise ratio with both pickups on.

If you split the humbucker, and you use a coil with the opposite magnetic polarity and the right electrical phase, it will hum cancel to a degree.

2. why is the P on a P/J bass wound hotter than the J? The whole reason this guy wanted a new pickup was the P was wound too hot, it sounded muddy and it over powered the J. Just like a guitar, the strings vibrate less closer to the bridge so wouldn't it make sense to wind the J hotter or at least even with the P?

With the first P/J basses they just stuck on a stock P and J pickup. The J adds some highs to the tone, and of course you can solo them and have your usual P and J tones. Even the P/J basses I've seen with Barts, the P is much louder.

I guess the problem is if you under wind the P, or over wind the J, you change the tone. But if you do each to a smaller extent, they should balance pretty well. Even on a stock Jazz bass, the bridge pickup is often weak compared to the neck.

I had a P/J with DiMarzio pickups, and that was quite usable, but the J was still not as loud. One way around that is to put the P in parallel.

[David King]

Starry night,
P pickups are probably hotter just because they have more turns (traditionally) than Js, i.e. 10000 turns or so for each P coil vs 8500 or so for a typical J. The magnet strength is also an issue. The J's gauss might have got knocked down (if they are alnico magnets) or the pickups might have been tossed together unthinkingly by Fender in a rush to get a new or cheaper product out the door.
Most of the ceramic and steel pickups were much hotter than their equivalent A-5 loaded pickups.

Typically the rear J pickup will need to be closer up under the strings to balance anyway so if the pickups were set the same distance then the bridge can't compete for the string excursion reasons you stated above.
I'd just lower the P until I get a good balance if possible. That usually helps the sound too.

[StarryNight]

Also since the P is wound hotter than the J....

I've got two questions:
1. would this same delema occur in a guitar with a s/s/h configuration assuming there is a switch to activate both neck and bridge pickups? I never thought about it before but I guess one coil of the humbucker would be out of phase with the single coil.

2. why is the P on a P/J bass wound hotter than the J? The whole reason this guy wanted a new pickup was the P was wound too hot, it sounded muddy and it over powered the J. Just like a guitar, the strings vibrate less closer to the bridge so wouldn't it make sense to wind the J hotter or at least even with the P?

[David Schwab]

You are thinking strings.... it's only one coil. Half the coil will be out of phase with itself. Try it out and see.

[David King]

The J can't use split magnets unless it has two coils, like the DiMarzio Model J.

I don't see why not? What does it matter if two of the strings are out of phase with the other two on a single coil pickup (when it's soloed). It should only matter when two pickup's signals are out of phase on the same string or strings. No?
see diagram below of 3 coils, dotted lines are strings:
P J

n...............s
n...............s
.....s..........n
.....s..........n

A true split coil J would be a better way of joining a P and J -I agree but it's not the only way to do it methinks.
I guess an experiment is worth a few dozen words...

[David Schwab]

The J can't use split magnets unless it has two coils, like the DiMarzio Model J.

There has been some threads at TalkBass where people were saying their P/J bass hummed when the J was in the circuit, and wondered what they could do about it. The answer was get a hum canceling J pickup.