group pole screw buy, need one more particpant...

[David Schwab]

Ah, I see now. I wasn't getting that message out of the post, sounded different to me.
(suspitious)

It was placed in a awkward part of the sentence. But if you take it out of context, it says:

I don't want to publicly say what alloy these are, they are one of the PAF alloys, I've found 3 so far...

[RedHouse]

It was placed in a awkward part of the sentence. But if you take it out of context, it says:

Makes sense now, thanks David.

Possum, my appollogys, I didn't read your post right.

[StarryNight]

If any of those that are doing the large purchase wants to sell off some screws at a higher price than $.06/screw let me know. I'd be willing to pay a higher price for a smaller quantity.

[Yves]

If any of those that are doing the large purchase wants to sell off some screws at a higher price than $.06/screw let me know. I'd be willing to pay a higher price for a smaller quantity.

+1.
Same thing applies for me: I'd be happy to buy a small quantity like in the 300 parts area.

[copperheadroads]

+1.
Same thing applies for me: I'd be happy to buy a small quantity like in the 300 parts area.

[Spence]

So JG, would you be willing to do some group-buy activity?

Don't forget to have a lovely group hug afterwards.

[soundmasterg]

The club only requires buying 10,000 screws. Cheaper than a country club and sounds better too.

Not sure how would Possum benefit from publicly ripping off several people to the tune of $600 plus dollars? He is apparently willing to share the results of destroyed vintage parts and the cost to get them tested. Seems like a good deal if you need screws. I tracked down the place that he is buying from and they do make nice screws. Considering the cost of trashing vintage pickups I only want to share info with people that have a little skin in the game also. Maybe it's just me.

Jon, I completely agree with your approach and Possum's approach to this. Why should you guys give up all the time and money you spent researching PAFs to someone else who wants to get in on the game for free. You're willing to share the screws if people want to join in on a group buy and that is farther than most would go. You don't see Duncan or DiMarzio on here offering to give pickup makers huge price discounts on buying parts so I think Redhouse is just jealous because he wants to be in on the game, but doesn't want to spend the time and money woodshedding himself. You guys have spent the time and money to find out the truth of PAFs and you deserve to be able to keep some of that secret for your own purposes. It is giving you much needed income after all.....

greg

[RedHouse]

...I think Redhouse is just jealous because he wants to be in on the game, but doesn't want to spend the time and money woodshedding himself. ...

greg

Not jealous, misread his post, and already appologised.

[Possum]

.....

There are certainly enough others who wanted in to put together your own group buy. There are tons of fastener makers in these economic times who would work with you. The website RFQ is a place to get bids from companies that are hungry for work. All you really need is an example screw for them to copy and what alloy you want. Are there fastener makers on the resources sticky?
This company quoted about $1500 for 10,000 screws, but a couple years ago I worked with some guys in Maine who did 10,000 for about $750, so there are plenty of places to check with. There ARE risks. The first guys I dealt with shipped the screws to me and lo and behold they were all ZINC plated! Fortunately I had saved my email requesting nickel plating. They did them over no charge. Its a bit of a learning curve but then what isn't....

[Joe Gwinn]

Control Drawing

Email specifying the plating (nickel versus zinc)? Hmm. A scatter of emails just invites trouble.

There should be a real control drawing which nails down all such details, all in a single place. The only purpose of the email would be to transmit the drawing. If there are later changes, update and re-issue the control drawing. Each version should have a date of issue, so people can tell the versions apart without archeology.

When placing the purchase order, specify which version (by date) of the drawing is correct, and provide a new copy, just to be sure that everybody is on the same page.

[kevinT]

Email specifying the plating (nickel versus zinc)? Hmm. A scatter of emails just invites trouble.

There should be a real control drawing which nails down all such details, all in a single place. The only purpose of the email would be to transmit the drawing. If there are later changes, update and re-issue the control drawing. Each version should have a date of issue, so people can tell the versions apart without archeology.

When placing the purchase order, specify which version (by date) of the drawing is correct, and provide a new copy, just to be sure that everybody is on the same page.

Hi Joe,

I did all that a while ago remember but then you're left at the mercy of the equipment that the manufacturer uses. In my case, the cutter that they used was probably old and dull and it ripped the slot instead of providing a clean cut... the top of the screw heads had the jaggys.

I sent them back.

[Joe Gwinn]

Hi Joe,

I did all that a while ago remember but then you're left at the mercy of the equipment that the manufacturer uses. In my case, the cutter that they used was probably old and dull and it ripped the slot instead of providing a clean cut... the top of the screw heads had the jaggys.

I recall discussing control drawings, but I didn't learn if you had used them.

As for the jaggys:

The screw slot shall be cleanly cut, with parallel sides and a flat bottom.

No burr shall exceed 0.003" deviation from the intersection of slot wall or bottom with the surface of the head of the screw.

The maker will need to add some tolerance words, as perfection is impossible, but you get the idea.

I sent them back.

What was their reason for sending the screws to you in the first place, given that cosmetics mattered?

[kevinT]

I actually sent you the drawing in a pdf file. Also sent you some of the screws.

It was a custom order. I stated on the drawing that the screws couldn't have any heading marks or any other blemishes from the manufacturing process. They came out looking like bunk... Sent all 40,000 back to them.

I've seen better so I know they could be produced without any problems...look at some of the screws coming from China/Korea...many of them don't have any marks....probably because they have all new machinary.

For example, Stew-mac screws look perfect...but I don't care for the tonal character that they produce in a pickup.

I recall discussing control drawings, but I didn't learn if you had used them.

As for the jaggys:

The screw slot shall be cleanly cut, with parallel sides and a flat bottom.

No burr shall exceed 0.003" deviation from the intersection of slot wall or bottom with the surface of the head of the screw.

The maker will need to add some tolerance words, as perfection is impossible, but you get the idea.

What was their reason for sending the screws to you in the first place, given that cosmetics mattered?

[Joe Gwinn]

I actually sent you the drawing in a pdf file. Also sent you some of the screws.

I do recall that. But I was originally reacting to Possum's comment in the email that said he wanted nickel not zinc. So we seem to have crossed threads here. Or were you and Possum in cahoots?

[EFK]

Any opinions on the screws from MicroFasteners? Nickel plate, right size and thread, curious to know if anyone has actually used them in a pickup? I'm sure they're from asia somewhere. Not terribly expensive and you don't have to order 40,000 of them...