Source for stamping covers?

[Bruce Johnson]

I wonder if he folds and solders them? That's how the original Travis Bean covers were made.

That's my guess too. With some labor and craftsmanship, you can make up a fabricated part that's nearly identical in appearance to a stamped or deep drawn part. That's how you make up prototype parts before investing in having the tooling made up.

Even a complex contoured part can be made this way. For example, you can divide the shell up into sections that are formed separately by simple dies in a small hydraulic press. Some sections can be hand formed with a hammer and shaped anvil. Then the parts are trimmed and soldered together and smoothed out. After plating, the joints are invisible. It's all classic metalworking technique. And yes, it takes a lot more labor than a production stamping operation.

[David Schwab]

No, he obviously does them how they did them in vintage days, I have a set of his and a PAF cover as well, his are slightly better. They just took more time to make a better product back then. Good luck getting that quality out of any supplier unless you can go to their shop and be somewhat in their face. Still, maybe like alot of things its a lost art.....

Yeah, but in the vintage days they just stamped them out. As Bruce pointed out you can fold and solder them, and that is more time consuming.

So if he doesn't have a press and a die, maybe he's doing it that way.

It's not a lost art, it's standard metal working.

[Possum]

...

It would be real obvious to me if they had been soldered together, don't forget I was an art jeweler and metals artist for a long time, you can't hide that kind of stuff. Yes they just stamped them out but the craftsmanship was obviously much higher than today, they weren't doing the same technique. The difference is profitability, maximum quantity at lowest quality. Pickup cover manufacturers could give a rat's butt about whether the tops are flat or the sides don't have scrape marks and are concave. Tom told me commercial guys can't make them the way he does. Soldering them together would be hugely time consuming. I made some silver boxes and they don't come out looking like PAF covers at all and you can see the solder if you know what to look for. I am guessing he is annealing and doing a second shaping possibly in a different die, which flattens everything out and returns the metal to work hardened; you certainly don't want an annealed cover on a pickup.

[David Schwab]

Yes they just stamped them out but the craftsmanship was obviously much higher than today, they weren't doing the same technique. The difference is profitability, maximum quantity at lowest quality. Pickup cover manufacturers could give a rat's butt about whether the tops are flat or the sides don't have scrape marks and are concave. Tom told me commercial guys can't make them the way he does.

I agree more time was spent making things in the past, with more attention to detail.

Soldering them together would be hugely time consuming.

Right, but you did say:

That you will never see. I talked to him about a month ago and he said his ace in the hole is his parts making capabilities. He said I could ask him anything except how he makes his stuff. He said his covers take a long time to make.

So it takes him longer than stamping, but less than soldering? I figured they take a long time, so it they have been bent and soldered.

I am guessing he is annealing and doing a second shaping possibly in a different die, which flattens everything out and returns the metal to work hardened; you certainly don't want an annealed cover on a pickup.

Sounds like a possibility.

[Possum]

.....

He sells alot of pickups, would you want to sit there folding up sides in metal and soldering each one, its just not practical and would be very difficult to repeat perfectly much less even do one perfectly. It would take hours just to make one. I wouldn't even attempt such a thing especially in thin metal like a bucker cover. The metal would have to be cut exactly perfectly and incredibly difficult to fold up the sides, you'd have problems with the corners. Assembling individually cut sides would be a nightmare as well, you would have flaws and visible solder on the inside of the cover. I don't think this is even a possibility, I'd like to see anyone make a convincing cover using soldering. You'd be able to tell the holes weren't punched too if you drilled them. The other problem is firescale, there is a high content of copper in N/S more than sterling and with that much soldering you'd have a problem with that, its very difficult to get rid of. And you would end up with a cover thats annealed from soldering and pickling, his covers are work hard like all of them are...

[David Schwab]

You could still use a die and all, but by precutting the sheet to have the sides folded, you don't have to worry about the depth of the cover.

I'd rather just stamp the thing though.

[Possum]

...

Stamping would be way cheaper :-) I wonder if there is some old book on doing deep draw process...that'd be the place to learn...

[GuitarmanUK]

Stamping would be way cheaper :-) I wonder if there is some old book on doing deep draw process...that'd be the place to learn...

For anyone interested, here's some links with good info about deep drawing:

Key design principles for successful deep drawing

Pressing & Deep Drawing Process

deep drawing | deep drawing process |sheet metal |

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[Artur pickupmaker]

I am guessing he is annealing and doing a second shaping possibly in a different die, which flattens everything out and returns the metal to work hardened; you certainly don't want an annealed cover on a pickup.

Why an annealed cover is so bad? There is a tonal difference if it's annealed?

I'm wondering about make my metal covers too.
I think it's possible to fold the sides, solder the edges, sand and polish it untill became very smooth, then plate. If it's well polished I think it's impossible to see the solder joints after plating.

Which is the best solder for this?
Brass? silver?

[Possum]

.....

Annealed metals are very soft and eddy currents go UP, N/S covers are good because they are more transparent, this would probably reverse the quality. To anneal you have to hit a reddish/orange heat color, with the high content of copper in N/S you'll get firescale which shows up as dark grey in the metal, the only way to get rid of that is with acid or polishing it off.

[Artur pickupmaker]

Solder the cover folded corners will necessarily anneal it?
It's possible to use a low temperature solder to avoid annealing?

[defaced]

To anneal you have to hit a reddish/orange heat color, with the high content of copper in N/S you'll get firescale which shows up as dark grey in the metal, the only way to get rid of that is with acid or polishing it off.

Wouldn't annealing it in an inert atmosphere prevent oxidization in the first place?

Since bending the metal just work hardens it, couldn't you do an anneal/quench procedure after any process that would anneal the metal to simulate the work hardening process?

[David King]

Some metals need quenching to anneal them. I forget which ones now but I think I just read that around here. I think you need to listen to see if the annealing really makes a difference in the eddy currents.

Soldering nickel silver with tin (RoHS) solder might do the trick. It's considerably harder than the lead based stuff but the temp is well below annealing temp. I don't know how it would fare in the plating bath though.

[Possum]

...

Sorry I am thinking in jewelry making terms, soldering using a torch, that really would be the best way to solder something like this though. No, soldering with an iron won't anneal it.

[Joe Gwinn]

Some metals need quenching to anneal them. I forget which ones now but I think I just read that around here.

Ferrous alloys (like carbon steel) are quenched to harden, while nonferrous alloys (including nickel silver) are quenched to soften.