Basic Question

[automan]

I know it doesnt really matter if your start or end wire is ground or hot, but what is the standard most pickup manufacturers stick to so people wont get confused using different pickups from different manufacturers together?

I've been making the start the hot and end the ground, but I ran across some pics today of people doing it the other way.

[David King]

Automan,
Your way always made more sense to me. Probably too late to put everyone on the same page now.

[Possum]

....

For single coils almost every manufacturer uses the start as ground, all Fender stuff is this way. For humbuckers, makers do it both ways. I think most standard is coil starts are hot and ground, and coil ends are soldered together...

[Mike Sulzer]

For single coils almost every manufacturer uses the start as ground, all Fender stuff is this way. For humbuckers, makers do it both ways. I think most standard is coil starts are hot and ground, and coil ends are soldered together...

I think that there are a couple of technical issues involved. The first is what happens if a turn shorts to a magnet. The second is, suppose that you do not ground the magnets. Does swapping the ground/hot change how much hum is picked up when you touch a magnet?

[ShannonH]

i have a mantra...

Black starts, white finishes. Every Fender, Duncan or Dimarzio I have been into does this.

With humbuckers, everybody has a way of doing whatever they jolly well please with the four way wiring. Just pick something you can remember and I'd even document it. The most important thing is that your pickups work together.

I think it's counter intuitive, but the die has been cast...

[David Schwab]

Black starts, white finishes. Every Fender, Duncan or Dimarzio I have been into does this.

I use white as the start and black as the finish. It doesn't matter though, because you can't see the wires.

[Possum]

...

Yes, it is smart to use the start as ground because if you DO get a short to the magnet and your strings touch the poles there won't be a problem. Back when I started I think Lollar's book said you could just wind everthing the same direction and just flip the wire colors on the middle. Well with that method if you get a short to the magnets and the strings touch the poles the guitar shuts off :-) You really don't need to ground the magnets, its overkill. I had a very early customer call me up and told me the strings were turning the guitar off when they hit the middle pickup poles so I said no problem I'll wind the right way, he liked the pickup so much he decided to leave it alone, and later told me he uses that defect as a "trick" while playing, he'll purposefully touch the strings to the mags during heavy feedback etc.

[David Schwab]

You need to insulate your magnets. Putting some tape on them wont alter the tone. One reason why grounding the magnets is a good idea is if you don't, and you touch them, you get a lot of noise.

If you have a short in the pickup the last thing I'd worry about is the strings touching the magnet and shorting out the sound! The pickup needs to be fixed. Depending on where the short is, the pickup won't always sound so good with a short.

[ShannonH]

amen from the peanut gallery

You need to insulate your magnets. Putting some tape on them wont alter the tone. One reason why grounding the magnets is a good idea is if you don't, and you touch them, you get a lot of noise.

If you have a short in the pickup the last thing I'd worry about is the strings touching the magnet and shorting out the sound! The pickup needs to be fixed. Depending on where the short is, the pickup won't always sound so good with a short.

I didn't at first and regretted it. The pickups I first wound all have magnet shorts, and I am going to rewind them. Nothing hurts me more than cutting off wire. Now I superglue, dip and tape. I have this scenario in my head where some kid with my pickups decides to play his strat in the rain and gets sent to rock-n-roll heaven because he touches a magnet while wet. It's not likely but still.

[David Schwab]

I didn't at first and regretted it. The pickups I first wound all have magnet shorts, and I am going to rewind them. Nothing hurts me more than cutting off wire.

Tell me about it! Even worse it the pickup developing a short after it's been encapsulated with epoxy! I've had that happened a few times, which made me also go through extra lengths to stop shorts from happening.

[RedHouse]

... One reason why grounding the magnets is a good idea is if you don't, and you touch them, you get a lot of noise...

Another is it removes the "noise antenna" from the center of the coil. When the magnets are ungrounded they tend to pick up much EMF and RF noise, grounding the poles helps quiet single coils significantly. The tough part being how to get a good connection on AlNiCo magnets which are non-solderable.

One way is to use those newer plastic bobbins (Fender 016730) everyone hates, they can ease the pain a little. You can remove the magnets, file a small groove in the side of the hole, and put a piece of pre-tinned wire in the groove, then press the magnets back in, then just connect all the wires and solder to ground. It looks a little weird but works well.

It's a little hard to see in this pic but these are the ones I was experimenting on with grounded poles back in '03.

[Mike Sulzer]

When the magnets are ungrounded they tend to pick up much EMF and RF noise, grounding the poles helps quiet single coils significantly.

With my six coil pickups, I have found that it is not necessary to ground the core; as long as the start is hot and the end is ground, touching the core has no significant effect. These coils are lower impedance than a regular pickup, and that probably helps. Since I cancel hum from magnetic fields by reversing the electrical and magnetic polarity on alternate coils, it is necessary to wind alternate coils in the opposite direction so that the end can be ground on all of them.

[RedHouse]

With my six coil pickups, I have found that it is not necessary to ground the core; as long as the start is hot and the end is ground, touching the core has no significant effect. These coils are lower impedance than a regular pickup, and that probably helps. Since I cancel hum from magnetic fields by reversing the electrical and magnetic polarity on alternate coils, it is necessary to wind alternate coils in the opposite direction so that the end can be ground on all of them.

I was specifically talking about single coils.

[Mike Sulzer]

I was specifically talking about single coils.

Yes, that's right you were. However, the hum picked up from touching a pole piece, or even when it is not touched to a lesser extent, is from electrical fields. It is not canceled by a humbucker, and so this type of hum sensitivity problem and its solutions apply to pickup coils in general.

[David Schwab]

The tough part being how to get a good connection on AlNiCo magnets which are non-solderable.

I just had a set of KSD Jazz pickups in for a rewind. They painted carbon paint on the bottom of the bobbin, and then stuck on a piece of aluminum foil shielding. They just had the ground wire under the foil. But it made contact to all the magnets.

When I rewound them, I removed the aluminum foil and replaced it with the Stew-Mac copper foil with conductive adhesive, and then ran a separate ground wire instead of having the start of the coil connected to the foil. Oh and I taped off the magnets.

They came out very nice.