Optimum/Max RPM for winding pickups?

[peskywinnets]

Ok having made a couple of generic CNC coil winders over the past months, I'm now about to embark a new CNC winder dedicated to winding pickups. (btw: I'm not using Elepros new PCB ...I'll be trodding my own path)

I've tested my stepper, which can spin at about 800-1000RPM max, which means I need to put in some gearing to get the RPM up.

In order to work out what stepup ratio I need to design/make my teethed pulley wheels, what would be the consensus on optimum pickup winding speed RPM (ok, this is likely to be subjective, so maybe maximum RPM speed too?)

Ta,
Pesky.

[-Elepro-]

taking into account that while it run you can do other... 400-600 rpm is good for me....

in my winder use 2/1 gear ratio for have 1000 rpm and more just for when i wind single string coil (for eub or bass pickup with a coil for each string )....

bye

[David King]

Thinner wire will go on better at higher rpms. The thicker wire seems to stretch out under centripetal force causing it to bow out in the center of the bobbin regardless of the tension. Shorter bobbins have an easier time of it. I'd say 1200 rpm is good for J pickups, guitar bobbins might be OK at 2k but I wouldn't know. It's MUCH easier to control everything at 600RPM and time savings hardly seem worthwhile when you go any faster unless you need to wind hundreds of bobbins a day.

[belwar]

For a standard bucker bobbin I wind at around 2500 RPM's, though I would have to check the pulley to make sure. The machine is auto traverse tied to the spindle speed, and I use a two stage tensioner.. One at dereeling, and one 1/2" from the bobbin.

Im about to start making small individual bobbins which are round core. Im going to crank it to about 5000-7000 RPM.

[automan]

Im about to start making small individual bobbins which are round core. Im going to crank it to about 5000-7000 RPM.

I've been making those single coil bobbins out of solid, 1 piece wood. If you need any, let me know. I can usually crank out 100 pretty quickly. Just let me know if you need any.

[David Schwab]

Im about to start making small individual bobbins which are round core. Im going to crank it to about 5000-7000 RPM.

That's great, because they seem to take forever. Maybe it's just monotony that sets in, but 10,000 turns is a whole lot of turns! The round coils wind nice and smooth though.

[David King]

I've been making those single coil bobbins out of solid, 1 piece wood. If you need any, let me know. I can usually crank out 100 pretty quickly. Just let me know if you need any.

Automan,
Are these just wood discs on each end of a magnet or are you turning actual wooden spools? I'd love to see the photo of one.

[Possum]

....

I did mine the stupid simple way, my winder is the Maxwell Adams type for handwinding, it has no connection with the auto traverse at all. After using it for 4 years, I prefer it this way, you dont have to worry about synch problems, braking, or homing the traverse. Turns per layer are just done by eye, watching the counter with one hand on the traverse, works really well. You can get some really icky tones if you make auto winders too perfect.

[David King]

Possum I guess we won't know that until we all try it for ourselves.

[Possum]

....

Yep. Also I'm using cheap commercial software and can write infinite number of different lines of code. I saw the traverse for the Maxwell Adams winder on Ebay and after studying the manual you could only do something like 30 different lines of code for each pass then it would repeat over again, so I won't get one of those. Having only one turn per layer wind spec, you have to do alot of experimenting tests to find something that sounds good especially for bridge pickups. Single speed passes can do some weird sounding stuff at certain frequencies.

[peskywinnets]

Thanks for the info guys.

For those pondering making the leap into CNC winders but hesitating at seemingly relatively high cost- like I've said, all you really need for a basic cheap PC Based CNC pickup winder, is a stepper driver (£45) eg NEW 3 Axis TB6560 CNC Stepper Motor Driver 12-36V 3A on eBay (end time 13-Jan-10 20:55:04 GMT) , a couple of stepper motors (approx £25), some MDF & screws (dirt cheap), the free demo version of Mach3 (£0, and has more than enough functionality for pickup winding) a PSU and some form of generating G-Code (eg an Excel spreadsheet to input all the parameters, bobbin width, wire size etc). This give you a nice large GUI to control your winder with the ability to use physical external controls (for example I control my winding/traversal stepper motors with a contour shuttle pro - http://tinyurl.com/yeo7lpa)

Bosh a helical threaded rod over the traversal stepper shaft eg like this exaggerated version... YouTube - Guitar pickup winder, coil winder, automatic traversal

....feed your copper wire over that helix onto the main winding motor & you're off to the races.

[David Schwab]

...the free demo version of Mach3 (£0, and has more than enough functionality for pickup winding) a PSU and some form of generating G-Code (eg an Excel spreadsheet to input all the parameters, bobbin width, wire size etc)....

Or one of these:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16956/

[peskywinnets]

Or one of these:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16956/

I've no need for one hence I've never posed the question on that thread, but it's not clear what that "CNC Pickup Controller" does?!

Is it simply replacing my aformentioned spreadsheet (to create G-Code from input parameters) or does it also have the stepper motor driver IC/trannies integrated into ithe PCB too (I ask because the PCB only looks to have one power tranny type component on it...and if this is the case there ought to be one per axis, so two at least!).

[David Schwab]

I've no need for one hence I've never posed the question on that thread, but it's not clear what that "CNC Pickup Controller" does?!

Yes you did

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t13215-8/#post123601

Is it simply replacing my aformentioned spreadsheet (to create G-Code from input parameters) or does it also have the stepper motor driver IC/trannies integrated into ithe PCB too (I ask because the PCB only looks to have one power tranny type component on it...and if this is the case there ought to be one per axis, so two at least!).

OK, assuming you forgot... This thread will explain it all. It replaces a PC, software, and spreadsheet. You directly enter your parameters and wind. No need for G-code.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t13215/

It's the brain for a CNC winder. You just add stepper motors/controllers and power.

This page shows all the programable options:

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t13215-6/

[Possum]

.....

Right on Peskywinnets, thats about what I did. With a PC you have unlimited lines of codes and can mimic handwinding by throwing enough lines together once you figure out how to make the softare move the traverse like you want it. What I would like ultimately, maybe you have some ideas here, is an alternate way to control the stepper with a joystick so you could use the same board and computer but move a joystick back and forth to do actual handguided winding. I'm sure it can be done but never really looked into it yet.