Muddy Waters Tele specs ?

[Yves]

Anyone has an idea of the DCR reading of the Muddy Waters' Tele Bridge pickup?

There's been a tribute CS, I believe in 2000, I guess it must be pretty close but I can't find the specs anywhere.

My guess is slighltly on the "overwound" side like in the area of 7.5k from what I hear, but if anyone has better info...

I have a customer refering to this model.

Thanks

[Possum]

...

Why don't you find out what year tele Muddy played and find specs on THAT instead of a probably inacurrate Fender product?

[Yves]

Yes, I've thought about this as well, thought finding accurate info about the original gear is not easy either.
On the other hand I believe that people at Fender custom shop are quite serious at what they do and are not in such a bad position when it comes to collecting such info in an relative accurate way.
Hence the idea of getting the specs of the tribute model.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

This message board is a gold mine for folks who know about vintage pickups. Just get the year and whatever other stray information you can, and go from there. You'll probably get some good data. I'll bet some folks here have peeled pickups of the same vintage before. I remember that it is early/mid 60s telecaster, but beyond that I don't know anything else.

If I had to guess, Fender probably just used some generic "vintage specs" for their CS model and weren't engineered specifically based on Muddy's telecaster. They seem to only bother with that when they do those insanely expensive tributes, like the reliced SRV or the EVH. I could be wrong, though.

[Yves]

This tribute is suppose to have been modeled from the actual Muddy Waters Tele that is sitting at Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland: a 1960s Telecaster in Candy Apple Red.

I tottally agree that CS models are insanely priced, but I do believe that they do real engineer (back engineer) work on these though.

An since from what I am aware of the specs in that era may have varied quite a lot, the era is not enough.

anyway, I've listened to the tone, made my own idea, and will strive to match the tone (and what's on my client mind) to the best.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I tottally agree that CS models are insanely priced, but I do believe that they do real engineer (back engineer) work on these though.

But, on that model? They do some great work, but it seems to be hit or miss. And, I'm not sure that they all get the same treatment. Check out the thread about newer Fender pickups at some point if you haven't already. It is like Jerry Springer with guitar nerds.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t18398/

[David Schwab]

I tottally agree that CS models are insanely priced, but I do believe that they do real engineer (back engineer) work on these though.

The Custom Shop walks up the hall and grabs some parts from the assembly line and then charges extra money for it. Do they even level the frets? They sure don't on the regular models.

There's no engineering, back or otherwise, going on there.

[Possum]

....

Amen.

[Yves]

The Custom Shop walks up the hall and grabs some parts from the assembly line and then charges extra money for it. Do they even level the frets? They sure don't on the regular models.

There's no engineering, back or otherwise, going on there.

It sounds like you may not be keen on Fender products

I may not totally agree with this: I am not saying that these CS guitars are superb or wathever, I haven't had hands on any of them myself BTW, they are too few and too pricey.
Still when Fender says in press realease that it had access to the Muddy Waters Tele that is sitting at Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, I have no reason to doubt about this, really.
Or would this mean that both Fender and Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland did some kind of secret agreement to pretend so ? Why that ?
Fender can offer this when making a 100 series of tribute CS.
And from that point I tend to think that people from CS have a minimum of interest in guitars and if they could have hands of some "piece of history", that's just an interesting thing and they must have taken notes, measures and to the least non invasive method of assessing thing (pickup measurement, gauss level ...).
Having said that, this doesn't mean their CS tribute the best guitar ever or the most accurate replica, but some inspiration from the real thing anyway.
Sure, Fender is a mass production company with big marketing plans, but I don't think this is all fake.

Anyway, I felt this was easier to source the specs of these than finding the specs of the original model amongts an era of Tele models... maybe not

[Bill M]

Check out the thread about newer Fender pickups at some point if you haven't already. It is like Jerry Springer with guitar nerds.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t18398/

I resemble that remark. I like Jerry Springer. I actually met him last summer in Stamford CT.

[David Schwab]

It sounds like you may not be keen on Fender products

You seem to assume they still make great products.

Besides making pickups, I do guitar repair for a living. I've been doing that off and on since 1972. I have seen a LOT of brand new Fenders that needed to have the frets leveled to get them to play well. One needed to have the fingerboard dressed and then refretted before the owner was happy with it. I've also been playing guitar and bass since about 1969. So I've owned and played a lot of Fenders. I still own a few old ones.

Also, many of their reissue pickups are totally wrong, and that includes some of the basses too. They made a Jazzmaster reissue and stuck Strat pickups under the covers. What's the point of that? The Wide Range humbuckers are just cheap PAF type pickups. The Jaguar bass looks cool, and has countless shielding and electrical issues. The fake Bart preamp in the Marcus Miller bass is noisy. Even Geddy Lee complained that they used junk tuners on his signature bass and asked them to change them. It's all about their profit margin. Now they are no longer a guitar and amp maker, they own a zillion music companies. Now it's about business and seeing how many cheap guitars they can sell.

The Custom shop instruments are what you should be getting from the standard ones, and since they aren't doing all that much "custom" they shouldn't be charging extra.

People think Fender and Gibson make great instruments. They used to. Now they are run of the mill. But part of this is because they are trying to offer instruments at reasonable prices. So for the good stuff you pay a lot more.

But you'd be better served going to a luthier and having something made right, unless you just need the Fender name on the neck as a status symbol.

I haven't had hands on any of them myself BTW, they are too few and too pricey.

Sure you have. They are basically the same as the standard Fenders. They are all made on the same machines. They just spend a little more time on them and add some useless features to jack up the price. They aren't hand made.

[Yves]

I have seen a LOT of brand new Fenders that needed to have the frets leveled to get them to play well. One needed to have the fingerboard dressed and then refretted before the owner was happy with it.

Well, at least the good part of this all is that you've got plenty of work from them


I'd thought the CS models would be given some kind of care though...

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Fender Custom Shop in fact does level and crown frets from the factory. American and Mexican models are leveled, but not really crowned. The most they'll do is drag sandpaper back and forth over the frets on the rosewood fingerboards, that's why everything fretted with 6150s has flat frets. It is most noticeable on the maple board guitars where they don't even do that. Because of the production speed, the necks don't have any settle in time, so shifting occurs after the initial dressing, rendering that work almost useless. A good initial fret dressing is a great idea for any new guitar once it has adjusted to a given climate and gotten used to being a neck and not just a pile of lumber.

What DS said about the CS is right - they really are just a team of better trained assemblers using the same pieces and parts as the rest of them. There are differences, the neck pockets are always tighter on CS, the woods are selected differently (though I'd rather they didn't, too much flame in the necks on the CS stuff and they twist), but it isn't the picture they try to paint. The same CNCs are shaping all the components. They have this mystique that it is a bunch of master luthiers building strats and teles by hand from scratch. But, why should they do that anyway? Fenders were always mass produced instruments, why pretend it is something it isn't?

I'll bet when they looked at the original Muddy tele they were looking at neck contour and the finish. If they were relicing, they probably took notes on that too. Whatever pickups they are putting in the American Vintage '62 tele is probably what ended up in that model in 2000.

[David Schwab]

What I've heard is that the American and Mexican models are not leveled at all. They are counting on them being pressed in all the same height.

From what I've seen they are not leveled and don't have flat tops either. Flat tops would cause some buzzing.

[mkat]

The Custom shop instruments are what you should be getting from the standard ones, and since they aren't doing all that much "custom" they shouldn't be charging extra.

People think Fender and Gibson make great instruments. They used to. Now they are run of the mill. But part of this is because they are trying to offer instruments at reasonable prices. So for the good stuff you pay a lot more.

But you'd be better served going to a luthier and having something made right, unless you just need the Fender name on the neck as a status symbol.


Sure you have. They are basically the same as the standard Fenders. They are all made on the same machines. They just spend a little more time on them and add some useless features to jack up the price. They aren't hand made.

100% agree. So much work is required on a Fender bass straight off the shelf for example, it's an absolute joke and the pricing is laughable. I've owned (still do), played, modded and repaired plenty, wouldn't buy one again.

Their basses for example, are one of the most amusing products. Apart from a few models, the major lines impose quite a few outdated designs and flaws on modern players. Bass playing has grown significantly since the 50's, but Fender bass designs have mostly remained stagnant. The biggest joke of all is how easy it is to circumvent all this and make a much better designed bass.