How to unwind a single to re use the wire.

[Ward]

Well I bought a couple of Fender CS fat 50s to see how they sound, not much chop at all, my hand wounds are far nicer, I've never used formvar and I would like to unwind one of these pickups and rewind it by hand to hear the difference between the formvar and the poly that I use. I've already unwound two layers by hand and the wire comes off pretty easy, what's a good way to unwind these things quicker than by hand so I can retain the wire. Thanks.

[trevorus]

Why not just wind on top? Beef them up a bit.

[Down Time]

I would try baewire on ebay, they sell 42 H Formvar in small rolls. I think it would be easier to start fresh.

[Jeff Callahan]

I would try baewire on ebay, they sell 42 H Formvar in small rolls. I think it would be easier to start fresh.

Yeah I agree, I tried to save some wire off an old WR humbucker, and it was a waste of time. I got it off rather cleanly by attaching an empty spool to my winder, and pulled the wire from the top of the pickup held facing the winder. Rewinding the old wire was trouble, I couldn't get enough tension without feeling like I was going to break the wire. Mushiest coil ever wound. Newer wire might not give you as much hassle, but why not just "start fresh".

Jeff

[Ward]

Thanks for the replies, yes, fresh would be better but I've got two of these pickups and I intend to at least try to get the wire off one of them. I'm not keen on buying formvar because it will be costly with shipping to OZ. These fat 50s don't appear to be potted, actually they rattle and bang quite loudly when playing with the amp dimed and the pick hitting the guard comes through quite a bit. I could easily just sell them but I figure it is the cheapest way for me to hear this bloody formvar once and for all hand wound.
Also, I'm not that confident that the formvar is gonna be anything special over what I already use, this wire thing sounds a bit smoke n mirrors to me, so I will get the wire off one of these and I will rewind it, I can't see any problem rewinding the wire, it's not caked in wax and should be no drama at all.
My thought right now is to put a small spool on the winder and hook the pickup on a spindle so it will spin freely, I'm thinking I just need a little resistance with the pickup so it doesn't over run the spool but not too much so I break the wire, if the wire stretches I'm not too bothered, I'll be going slow. I'll report back with the results in a few days.

[David Schwab]

I could easily just sell them but I figure it is the cheapest way for me to hear this bloody formvar once and for all hand wound.

What are you going to accomplish by rewinding them by hand? They only way they will sound different is if you wind a different amount of wire on them. Right now you know how the formvar sounds with that much wire wound on them.
If they are too dark just unwind some wire and see how they sound.

If you unwind all the wire and wind all the wire back on they will sound pretty much the same.

[Ward]

Well mate, the Fenders are machine wound, and it's not that they are too dark, it's just that they are bland, in my exp, hand wound singles have much better tone, usually no harshness or icepick, and just something about them, I'm not much good at describing tone but to say they will sound pretty much the same? I don't think so.
I will wind tpl way differently to the machine tpl.
I have already taken some wire off the pickup, it's not a bad pickup, just bland. Thanks.

[David Schwab]

... but to say they will sound pretty much the same? I don't think so.

Well I've rewound Gibson humbuckers by hand, and they sounded like... Gibson humbuckers. The originals were not hand wound, and I sure didn't stick to the original TPL.

If you are doing heavy scatter they will sound a bit different. But changing the turn count makes the biggest difference. Do you know how many turns they have compared to the pickups you wound? If you don't, you can't directly compare hand winding to machine winding.

If those are "fat" versions, they are probably wound to sound dark, and will have little of the snap you are looking for. I'd try unwinding some wire first.

I will agree that some machine wound pickups sound bland, but it's not because they were machine wound. It's other factors in their design. But those are custom shop pickups, right? It's not like they are from some factory in Asia (not that I think too highly of any modern Fender pickups).

So yeah, give it a shot. My first attempts at winding a pickup were back in the late 70's, and I used wire I unwound from a Gibson EB bass humbucker. It was probably PE too. I unwound it by setting up the bobbin on an axel and put an empty spool on my winder and wound the wire onto the spool.

That worked very well.

[Ward]

Well it ended before it started I'm affraid. I had 1/2 the wire off and then it broke right on the end, it was jammed in a few layers and I couldn't get it out. So I guess I'll have to put my poly back on it, I'll put what formvar I have on it but the experiement is now kaput. Just as an aside, humbuckers don't come up real well winding by hand, so it's no comparison really. I don't know how many winds were on the fat 50 but it measured 6k after I'd stripped 2 layers off of it, the pickups went into a swamp ash strat and had no snap but also none of the chime that mine have. Oh well, nothing gained here, sorry for the exp going bad. Cheers.

[David Schwab]

Just as an aside, humbuckers don't come up real well winding by hand, so it's no comparison really.

You are making generalizations. It's all about your technique. Note I said a hand wound humbucker sounded like the machine wound humbucker. That demonstrates that if wound neatly by hand they sound the same. The only thing that hand winding does is introduce randomness. You don't have to scatter at all when you hand wind. I don't. Except for the scatter hand winding is the same as machine winding. And machines can scatter also.

There are quote a few people here that hand wind humbuckers, including me.

The real issue is the quality of Fender pickups, not that they are wound on machines.

Oh and you can splice the wire if you break it.

[Ward]

Yes I got the bit about the hand wound sounding like a machine wound hummer. Good luck to you mate, I can't get hummers to sound any good at all. Then again, I'm a total treble freak. I've tried many times to emulate a steady traverse but never had good results. I've never used PE before either so maybe that would help?
So what is it about the quality of Fender p/ups, bad mags? Crap wire? What else is there?
Maybe it's the wire, I was able to retrieve 90% of the HF wire from the 2nd fat 50, I wound it back on the bobbin adding the remaining 10% poly wire at the end and you are pretty spot on, it sounds very much the same. I much prefer the tone of the Poly wire I get here in OZ, a more detailed tone for sure. So in the end, my question has been answered, I shall not ponder the merrits of HF any more.

[David Schwab]

Yes I got the bit about the hand wound sounding like a machine wound hummer. Good luck to you mate, I can't get hummers to sound any good at all. Then again, I'm a total treble freak. I've tried many times to emulate a steady traverse but never had good results. I've never used PE before either so maybe that would help?

I only make humbuckers. I've never used PE, except for my early experiments 30+ years ago. I think it's a bit darker sounding than SPN, but others here will have to chime in.

I mostly make bass pickups, but my guitar humbuckers are always nice and bright.

Here's a humbucker I made with Stew-Mac parts and SPN a few years back. It's wound to fairly standard PAF specs. It was actually my first attempt at winding a humbucker. It's installed in the neck position on a Charvel Strat. Nice and plucky! I hate dark humbuckers.

Neck PAF

So what is it about the quality of Fender p/ups, bad mags? Crap wire? What else is there?

I don't know... you would think they could make good pickups right? The fact that they were using Lace Sensors shows a lack of confidence in their own pickups.

Maybe it's the wire, I was able to retrieve 90% of the HF wire from the 2nd fat 50, I wound it back on the bobbin adding the remaining 10% poly wire at the end and you are pretty spot on, it sounds very much the same. I much prefer the tone of the Poly wire I get here in OZ, a more detailed tone for sure. So in the end, my question has been answered, I shall not ponder the merrits of HF any more.

I've never use HF, but I do use heavy build SPN. I don't know if formvar sounds any different in single build, unless it's a thicker insulation than with SPN, but the heavy build SPN has a rounder, looser tone, kind of like heavier gauge wire. I like to use it for neck pickups to keep them bright.

[Ward]

Nice neck hummer man, thanks for your input.

[David Schwab]

Nice neck hummer man, thanks for your input.

Thanks. My point in posting that is I did nothing special. It was a Stew-Mac kit, with Stew-Mac wire, and wound 5,000 turns per bobbin. I was pleasantly surprised how nice it turned out. I did it so I had something to practice on.

My winding skills were crap at the time too!