46 AWG (novice winder)

[NPB_EST.1979]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forum... I love the info here so far!

I'm a pre-novice at winding pickups. I got a decent winder going, and getting stewmac kits to get started. I got some Schatten 42 AWG, but I just fell *ss backwards into some 46AWG.

Here's a quickie question.

1.Should I begin winding pickups with the 46AWG? I know it's thinner and might break easier...but it's of no investment value in case I mess it up.

If you think 46awg might be an extreme and might give a beginner more of a headache than I'm due... let me know.

2. I could use some tips on sanding off coating to test with the voltmeter. This stuff is so thin! What grit # etc.

[copperheadroads]

awg 46 is very fine wire .breaking might be a problem .but i would be more concerned with trying to get the correct tension without stretching it .allot of winders stay away from it , cause of those reasons .why would you need to use 46 .to wind a very hot pickup maybe? you dont have to strip the coating the solder will melt the insulation

[NPB_EST.1979]

Thanks!

For my first time ever, I got 773 turns in before it snapped. I was going pretty slow at first and then sped it up a little. It was going for a couple minutes.

Great to know I dont have to strip away coating, I'm a little confused how to roughen up wire that is so thin.

So I'll solder the the pickup back onto the spool without stripping it down and cover the solder joint with some clear fingernail polish? I'm thinking that might do it.

thanks!

[Zhangliqun]

Learn on the 42. It can take more of a beating.

[NPB_EST.1979]

soldering this wire together is impossible! man, I really give you guys credit.

My first pickup I tried winding with 46awg brok at 775 winds.
After trying to solder the wires back together, I cut it all off and tried the 42 awg.

I got a nice tangle at 1500 winds with the 42 awg. I had to cut a few winds off so I might still have 1490-some winds on it. But I'm not going to try soldering it to the wire spool tonight. I'm going to sleep on it!

[copperheadroads]

i agree start with 42 gauge .what kind of pickup are you doing ? do you have any experience soldering ? tinning wires .............

[NPB_EST.1979]

I've soldered pickups into guitars before, etc. but nothing this small.

[tedmich]

these little fiberglass erasers are great for stripping wires as small as 48awg;
[AE0095] 840 Rt Extra Fine FybRglass® Cone Wheels
they make a dedicated machine, but a wheel on a dremel run on the wire end while turning the wire works well.

400+ grit carbide wet/dry sandpaper can work too. but it also cuts the tiny Cu and the erasers don't

[David Schwab]

soldering this wire together is impossible! man, I really give you guys credit.

It's not hard, but you can't solder it directly. Wrap it around the lead wire a bunch of times, and then solder it.

I do splices the same way. I wrap both ends around a tinned wire and then solder and tape it off. Not that I do splices much.

[chevalij]

I only do splices if I'm repairing a pickup, but soldering 42awg together can be done. Just takes practice and magnification.

[NPB_EST.1979]

I managed to get 8500 winds of 46 awg in a neck tele pickup. To my surprise, it measure 13.94k. I magnetized it like utter crap and that's way to hot for a tele pickup, so I'm just going to rewind it with some other stuff. I had no idea the same wraps with 46 awg made it that much higher resistance.

I probably could have fit at least 12,000 winds of 46awg on that pickup.

[David Schwab]

I managed to get 8500 winds of 46 awg in a neck tele pickup. To my surprise, it measure 13.94k. I magnetized it like utter crap and that's way to hot for a tele pickup, so I'm just going to rewind it with some other stuff. I had no idea the same wraps with 46 awg made it that much higher resistance.

I probably could have fit at least 12,000 winds of 46awg on that pickup.

The DC resistance has nothing to do with how "hot" a pickup is.

[Chris Turner]

Right... as I understand it, the more cross-sections of wire that are crossed by the magnetic field lines, the more magnetic flux (or flux density) there is, and hence, more current generated when the string disturbs the field. So: more winds = more output.

[Mark Hammer]

Coil DC resistance serves as an approximate proxy for turn count. So, assuming you know some other things about the wire itself, and the magnet, DC resistance can be an indicator of output.

If you know nothing about the wire or magnet, though, David is correct in asserting that DC resistance does not correspond directly to how "hot" the pickup is.

Thinner-gauge wire has a higher linear resistance, such that 8000 turns of #46 will have a higher DC resistance than #44, which in turn will be higher than #42, and #42 higher than #41, and so on. It's still 8000 turns, though. Telecaster neck pickups have a slightly narrower spacing between the two outside poles, such that the total circumference of each wind is juuuuuussst a bit shorter than that of a Strat neck pickup. When you add up that difference in total length of thousands of winds, the DC resistance ends up being noticeably lower than your average Strat pickup; something like 5.6k. Still, it is a pleasingly strong pickup, and that's because it has enough turns.

I have an old photocopied article from Guitar Player, when Jeff Baxter used to have a repair/mods column in the 70's. In the article, he discusses matching the two coils of a humbucker for better hum-rejection by measuring the DC resistance of each coil, and removing turns from the higher-value one until the two coils are matched for resistance. Now, that is what we knew, and how we thought at that time. And it is also the case that both coils would have the same wire gauge and coil dimensions, such that DC resistance could be used as a pretty good approximation of how closely matched the two coils were with respect to turns. Unfortunately, it was also fodder for the folklore of the supposed relationship between DC resistance and output level.

Think of it like facial hair. Someone with facial hair has a reasonable likelihood of being larger and stronger than someone without it. After all, children and the vast majority of women of all ages don't have facial hair. But then, there are short diminuitive men with beards, children with fake moustaches, and grannies with with stray chin hairs. And there are also big hulking hairless weightlifters. So, while there isn't NO relationship between facial hair and strength, it is not a direct and highly predictable relationship either.