The "best" height/width and magnet power ratio

[Triad]

Hello! Is there a site or a book that really goes deep into these parameters? I.E. the way a taller bobbin affects sound, the way a wider magnet does it, how more wire or a thicker one changes the final results etc.
I've taken a look here and there but these topics seem to be a bit undervalued...
I'm already into winding but I'd like to get deeper into it. Thanx in advance!

[belwar]

There isnt a really good pickup winding book out there, most of them are really geared toward decriptions of existing pickups. I definetly would not say that there is a pickup makers bible or anything. There was a thread recently about books that pickup makers should have.. there was like 30 books listed.

If you are really interested in a topic, post about it here with questions. We love to argue about things. One of the forums 83 davids will chime in im sure.

When I got started I first read Jason Lollars book, which was a good primer but is really focused on the winder itself (as it should be). Then I read the standard books like "Guitar Electronics For Musicians" and "Pickups, Windings and Magnets". While a good read, I look back at them now and find them riddled with generalities and errors. They lack alot of specific detail - even for the most studied pickups like the PAF. Far more information can be gleaned from reading this forum from start to finish, and the old ampage forum archive.

Today I find myself books about magnetism, and magnetic materials. Also books about steel alloys.

bel.

[belwar]

How on EARTH did this get 800 views in like 4 hours?

[David King]

How on EARTH did this get 800 views in like 4 hours?

All the Davids heard their name and had to have a look-see.

[bajaman]

[David Schwab]

All the Davids heard their name and had to have a look-see.

This is the first time I looked at the thread.

[Bruce Johnson]

How on EARTH did this get 800 views in like 4 hours?

Because everyone wants the magic answer.....

But nobody actually has it.

[Joe Gwinn]

Hello! Is there a site or a book that really goes deep into these parameters? I.E. the way a taller bobbin affects sound, the way a wider magnet does it, how more wire or a thicker one changes the final results etc.

There are many optimization studies of variable-reluctance magnetic pickups (not necessarily for guitars), but they all start with a fundamental question: What do we mean by "best"?

[Triad]

I know there's no "best" in this area but, for example, I'd like to save some time and money avoiding useless tests if there's a book that explains what I'm trying to understand...
The topic I'm mainly interested in: how the bobin height affects the final sound, how to find a good match between magnet (type/dimensions), number of wounds and wire thickness; how to vary the various factors to get a certain result. I think I'm making good pickups but knowledge is power

[David Schwab]

Look at standard examples. Tall thin coils like a Strat or Jazzbass sound different from short squat coils like a Jazzmaster or P bass. A P-90's wide coil sounds different from a Strat.

That's partly because the coil width (aperture) and also because of how close the wire is to the core, and how close it is to the strings.

But no one has all the answers. You need to start with a known design and then change parameters to see what it does.

You also have to include wire gauge, insulation thickness, magnet type and strength, core material, etc.

You will only ever get generalization on these aspects of pickups. It's these details that made one pickup design different from another. If you just want to copy the old standards, then you have most of the info you need all over the internet. If you want to do something original you need to experiment. There is no short cut, unfortunately.

[Triad]

Hi David... yes, I know what you're talking about and I'm not obviously looking for a book that gives all the answers... I'm mainly looking for a book that explains HOW and WHY these factors influence the final results.
I'm already wiring pretty good (IMVHO) stuff but you know... you always want to know more to make a better pickup.

[Mike Sulzer]

A very important factor is the resonance of the circuit formed by the coil inductance, its capacitance, the cable capacitance, and any losses in the circuit such as tone and volume controls, eddy currents in metal parts, and amplifier load. The frequency of the resonance and its height (Q) are both important.

If you learn about electronic circuits, then you do not have to rely on rules of thumb that apply in some cases, but not others.

You can read Lemme's article to get an idea of how some of this works, but in the long run there is no choice but to learn the electronics.

[David King]

Just as an aside, I think everyone's pickups sound at least 50% better to their ears than any others. I don't think we would all keep winding if that were not the case. Would anyone have more babies if their first ones weren't the cutest, smartest little creatures on earth? I don't think so...

[David Schwab]

Just as an aside, I think everyone's pickups sound at least 50% better to their ears than any others. I don't think we would all keep winding if that were not the case.

I agree, but I've wound a lot of pickups I hated. I think we try to achieve tones like like to hear though, and then of course they sound better than everyone else's pickups.

Would anyone have more babies if their first ones weren't the cutest, smartest little creatures on earth? I don't think so...

Depends on how good the sex is? Some babies are just not all that cute. I was distressed for a while when my daughter would make a face that looked like GW Bush! I think she did it while making a poop, so that explained a few things about him too....

[Tele-Bob]

Very cool thread. There are indeed a lot of options once we start looking into magnet size, coil proximity, and all the other issues. One of the things that may hold people back is that most magnets and bobbins are made in "industry standard" sizes which can limit experimentation. The prospect of machining your own bobbins is great if you have that capability, or very costly if you have to out source it.

Magnets can also be tough to work with because of their inherent properties but, like other have said here, magnet size has a lot to do with the end result. You can get custom sizes but that too can be costly.

I guess there's just no inexpensive way around it. Research and experimentation can cost a fair amount of money.