New CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers exist!

[belwar]

I have never found a need to adjust them. Over the years I messed with them, raising them, lowering them, etc. To me they sound best level with the top of the bobbin (the way they come from the factory). I think they also sound better if you cut the part that extends out the back of the pickup off.

Seth Lover pointed out that he didn't want adjustable poles, or even exposed poles, but it was a marketing point since Fender didn't have adjustable poles.

Most of the pickups I make have blades, and they work just fine. I get a nice string to string balance.

If we could look past tradition, and use just our ears, most pickups would probably be blade pickups I would think

[Tele-Bob]

I have never found a need to adjust them. Over the years I messed with them, raising them, lowering them, etc. To me they sound best level with the top of the bobbin (the way they come from the factory). I think they also sound better if you cut the part that extends out the back of the pickup off.

Seth Lover pointed out that he didn't want adjustable poles, or even exposed poles, but it was a marketing point since Fender didn't have adjustable poles.

Most of the pickups I make have blades, and they work just fine. I get a nice string to string balance.

I agree for the most part. Blades do sound really good and balanced. There some instances though where I've had very good results with adjusting magnet height. As far as I'm concerned, having the ability to tweak the pickup is really nice in some guitars but really not necessary for most of them.

Once I get the the set-up sounding good, I leave it alone and have no need to make further adjustments.

[frankfalbo]

If we could look past tradition, and use just our ears, most pickups would probably be blade pickups I would think

I'd disagree as a blanket statement. It's why a Fender Rhodes sounds so awesome. The string vibrating in and out of the heart of the magnetic field (to me) is what "does it" for me most of the time. I like blade pickups too, but history isn't what ties me to pole pieces, it's the rawness of the attack, when the string is vibrating the most, and its wavering in and out of the field. It's also the feeling of "distance" when you bend a note. Sure the output drops, but to me its like you're bending "farther away" from something. I like the feeling of fighting it, picking harder into the bends to compensate. Even more, when you bend into the neighboring pole piece it's like you came "full circle". You could say that history is what gave me that experience, and has since skewed my preferences, but in a "blindfold" test, if no one ever heard an electric guitar yet, could still yield the preference for the pole piece design, much the same way that a "perfect" sample of a Fender Rhodes on a keyboard sounds lousy. There's no randomness or expression in it. I think Seymour's Parallel Axis pickups are a great compromise.
I haven't messed with a true WRHB other than to try one and dismiss it pretty quickly. Now I'd like to spend some time with an original to see if I can gauge the CuNiFe magnets' net impact. The threads themselves will throw the magnetic field into the coil's early windings in a unique way, but that aspect could be duplicated with a thin threaded sleeve slipped over any material.

[fieldwrangler]

I have never found a need to adjust them. Over the years I messed with them, raising them, lowering them, etc. To me they sound best level with the top of the bobbin (the way they come from the factory). I think they also sound better if you cut the part that extends out the back of the pickup off.

Seth Lover pointed out that he didn't want adjustable poles, or even exposed poles, but it was a marketing point since Fender didn't have adjustable poles.

Most of the pickups I make have blades, and they work just fine. I get a nice string to string balance.

David -

Sounds like an admirably empirically-informed view.

In fact, these days I'm thinking that polepiece proximity is kindof a lousy way to deal with string balance issues.

Also, the height of a polepiece above the bobbin is a big part of the pickup's character and shouldn't be thrown around quite so casually...

Bob Palmieri

[David Schwab]

I'd like to point out that I respect everyone else's opinions, and even though I don't care for adjustable poles, and staggered magnets, etc., other people think they are the bee's knees.

I agree that randomness is perceived as desirable to the human ear. Bruce Johnson put it nicely recently when he said a certain amount of cheesiness in your tone is good, but just a little.

I actually like a little bit of stratitus for example. When I played a P bass with two P pickups, it gave it a certain built in chorusing I liked.

My first bass pickups had pole pieces, kind of like a Jazz bass pickup. But it's a PITA when all these different basses have different string spreads, so blades where the way to go. In the end I didn't hear any advantage to the poles, but I did have to adjust the design slightly for the blades.

[Tele-Bob]

I haven't messed with a true WRHB other than to try one and dismiss it pretty quickly. Now I'd like to spend some time with an original to see if I can gauge the CuNiFe magnets' net impact. The threads themselves will throw the magnetic field into the coil's early windings in a unique way, but that aspect could be duplicated with a thin threaded sleeve slipped over any material.

Frank I agree on the tone of a Rhodes. There's nothing else like it!

As for WRHB's, we have a mod using threaded alnico 5 and a non-threaded version using straight alnico 5 and they both sound identical. The threads on the magnets don't seem to change the sound at all. Personally, I feel that using a threaded sleeve over a magnet would change the sound more because of the way the sleeve, (threaded or not), would diffuse the magnets field.

I'm assuming you're talking about a ferrous metal sleeve of some sort.

[David Schwab]

I'm assuming you're talking about a ferrous metal sleeve of some sort.

If it was a ferromagnetic material it would increase the inductance. it wouldn't diffuse the field, it would make it stronger.

But you can use a non magnetic material and that shouldn't change anything.

[Sweetfinger]

The only way to thread hardened magnet materials (like alnico) is thread grinding. It's a very expensive process.

You gotta get out of the 19th century, man!

Electrochemical machining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Electrical discharge machining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water jet cutter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Tele-Bob]

You gotta get out of the 19th century, man!

Electrochemical machining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Electrical discharge machining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water jet cutter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you know of another way, I'd love to hear about it. I have investigated a multitude of processes over the past couple years and haven't come up with any economical methods of threading alnico rod. There certainly is the possibility that new technology has recently emerged, or that I've missed something, but after all my investigation I have not found a way to do it economically.

I have investigated ECM, and EDM thoroughly and they're both cost prohibitive. I have a some friends who actually own a shop doing both processes and they couldn't for a reasonable price.

[David Schwab]

I have investigated a multitude of processes over the past couple years and haven't come up with any economical methods of threading alnico rod.

So I ask, are there any benefits to having adjustable magnets? And do they outweigh the cost?

[Tele-Bob]

So I ask, are there any benefits to having adjustable magnets? And do they outweigh the cost?

I think you already know the answer to that one.

It all depends on who you are. Personally, I find the biggest benefit to adjustable magnets is that I can really fine tune the string balance on a given guitar. Some of my guitars have a weak B string, or an overly loud low E or whatever. Being able to adjust the magnets makes a big difference.

Another advantage occurs when a guitar with adjustable magnet pickups is sold to someone who likes a different string gauge and set-up. The new owner makes his adjustments and fine tunes the set-up to his liking.

Then again, many people find this a big waste of time and are completely satisfied with bar magnet pickups or fixed magnets.

It's up to the individual.

For example, in my opinion the majority of vintage guitars are firewood. There are so many better and less costly options out there for guitars now. But the vintage market is alive and well. Hell, I even own a few vintage pieces that I bought cheap and will sell at the right time. I don't play them because my new guitars are so much better!

So, yeah, adjustable magnets are really cool if you're a person who digs that kind of thing.

[frankfalbo]

I adjust the poles on most of my pickups just for personal preferences. But the most important reason is in the studio, if you're recording a part, and one of the notes in your chords is lagging behind you can adjust the pole for that song. It may not stay there, and for live music it's of little consequence, but on a track it can make the difference. Clean it may not make a difference, but under gain, you're squeezing too much sound through too small a space. Just like a cartoon football huddle where they're squeezing out the "little guy" the note that posesses the least amount of frequency information often gets suppressed in a chord under overdrive, even when it's perfectly audible when played clean.

[fieldwrangler]

Frank Falbo wrote:

I'd disagree as a blanket statement. It's why a Fender Rhodes sounds so awesome. The string vibrating in and out of the heart of the magnetic field (to me) is what "does it" for me most of the time.

Frank -

How much output do you think we'd have if the polepieces on the Rhodes pickups were flat faced instead of chisel pointed?

Bob Palmieri

[fieldwrangler]

TeleBob -

Very nice looking work all around.

When I had a Tele with these big 'buckers on it (in the early 80's) I ended up drilling out the covers so that all 12 pole pieces were exposed (lashing the two covers together face to face with a wind of gaffer's tape establishes a dandy drilling guide.) I liked the results a lot.

Then I bridged between the polepice/magnets with a ferrous plate. A departure in terms of tone, but as I recall the output went up and the tone became more "focussed."

Then I figured if what I wanted was more traditional humbuckers maybe I oughtta just cut me another pickguard.

Bob Palmieri

[Tele-Bob]

TeleBob -

Very nice looking work all around.

When I had a Tele with these big 'buckers on it (in the early 80's) I ended up drilling out the covers so that all 12 pole pieces were exposed (lashing the two covers together face to face with a wind of gaffer's tape establishes a dandy drilling guide.) I liked the results a lot.

Then I bridged between the polepice/magnets with a ferrous plate. A departure in terms of tone, but as I recall the output went up and the tone became more "focussed."

Then I figured if what I wanted was more traditional humbuckers maybe I oughtta just cut me another pickguard.

Bob Palmieri

That's crazy stuff man! Nowadays some people are freaking out just because we dismantled a few WRHB's. They'd probably string you up if you performed those mods today! LOL!