Brad Paisley Neck Pickup

[PAF-Boy]

Hello winders,
can you guys tell me what makes the Apc T 300 so verry special.
A customer wants me to wind him a Brad Paisley style set but I can not find out how the neckpickup has to be made.
Tx
P

[David Schwab]

Adder pickups are similar to Lace Sensors.

In fact the man that designed them was named Melvin Lace. I'm not sure if he is related to the people from Actodyne General Inc.

You can check out some of the patents here:

Electromagnetic musical pickup ... - Google Patent Search

Add-on modification device for ... - Google Patent Search

Their web site states:

Each APCpickup design features:

PASSIVE POWER®: Each pickup design optimizes the magnetic circuit required to match the tone, power, and sensitivity requirements of both the artist and his gear. All of this is accomplished without the use of onboard battery driven pre amps.

ANISOTROPIC MAGNETIC SHIELDING (AMS) : Our unique shielding system directs lines of magnetic flux along paths not normally taken. The result of this is the most efficient magnetic circuit ever created and in the almost complete elimination of 60 cycle hum and coil related micro-phonic feedback.

CONTROLLED ENERGY MAGNETS: Rare earth type magnets manufactured and assembled by APC assure total control over tone, balance and dynamic potential.

Good luck on trying to clone of of these!

[PAF-Boy]

Oops

Thanks David !
P-Boy

[frankfalbo]

Yeah tough to clone. I was good friends with Mel Lace, who is in fact Don Lace's brother. Unfortunately they have both passed. Mel was quite intelligent, and from my interaction with him, a very kind, good hearted man. I wish I would have spent more time with him. I still have some APC's and they're great. For various reasons I can't stand Lace Sensors. I know some people like them but the APC pickups didn't possess any of the characteristics that turn me off of Lace Sensors, and in turn they did produce things I really like, primarily in the attack, & top end response.

[David Schwab]

Thanks for that info Frank, I figured they must have been related. Back when Adder made that comb looking thing that stuck on top of Strat pickups, it looked very similar to the comb in the Lace Sensors. I had heard he was a very nice man.

[fieldwrangler]

Thanks for that info Frank, I figured they must have been related. Back when Adder made that comb looking thing that stuck on top of Strat pickups, it looked very similar to the comb in the Lace Sensors. I had heard he was a very nice man.

David -

Have you checked whether or not the Lace sensors sense string motion across the top as well as the usual "closer-farther" sensitivity?

Bob Palmieri

[David Schwab]

David -

Have you checked whether or not the Lace sensors sense string motion across the top as well as the usual "closer-farther" sensitivity?

Bob Palmieri

I'm not sure what you mean by "sense string motion across the top". Do you mean continuously?

This is what they look like on the inside:



So it's sort of like a blade.

This is the way they show the magnetic field. From what I saw with viewing paper it seemed about right, as far as I can tell with a 2D viewing medium.



My only experience with them is one I have in the neck position that was pulled from a Strat. They get louder when you move them closer to the strings, as you would expect.

It's an OK sounding pickup. A little thin, but sounds nice overdriven. I'll replace it with something else at some point. The blue ones sound better than the gold, silver or red ones. This one is gold.

[fieldwrangler]

I'm not sure what you mean by "sense string motion across the top". Do you mean continuously?

I mean the side-to-side component of the string's elliptical vibration, as opposed to what we normally see with pickups sensing the motion towards & away from the pickup.

Bob Palmieri

[David Schwab]

I mean the side-to-side component of the string's elliptical vibration, as opposed to what we normally see with pickups sensing the motion towards & away from the pickup.

How do you know that the pickup senses the up and down motion and not the elliptical motion? I think the fact that you can hear when you are plucking the string in different ways shows pickups sense the strings both ways.

I've pointed out here in the past, and it was debated if it was factual, that the original Bartolini patent claimed that the planar pole tips caused the pickup to sense more of the up/down motion, which sounded more like an acoustic guitar top moving, and that rod shaped poles sensed more of the side-to-side motion. The patent claimed this was because of the shape of the magnetic field over the pole.

I will say that the Lace sensor sounds pretty much like any single coil, just a little brighter and thinner. So I don't think the unusual magnetic pattern is making much difference in tone, but it is a very quiet pickup as far as noise.

[fieldwrangler]

David Schwab wrote:

How do you know that the pickup senses the up and down motion and not the elliptical motion? I think the fact that you can hear when you are plucking the string in different ways shows pickups sense the strings both ways.

David -

When I wanna know a pickup's polarity I move some ferrous thing towards and away from the face. I see considerably less activity when moving something from side to side.

I think that Bill Bartolini did indeed want to make this "orthogonal asymmetry" as graphic as possible with the planar polepieces.

I would think that blades should have a similar effect.

I think most pickups are much more sensitive to the "closer-farther" component of the strings' motion than the side-to-side, and this is reflected in the stronger nature of tone produced by pickstrokes that try to influence the most deflection along the in & out axis (just like the acoustic guitar case.)

Actually, the complexity introduced by what I consider residual effects of the side-to-side component is certainly a component of many tones we're familiar with.

Once upon a time (in the early 90's I believe) a violinist in town asked me to make him a magnetic pickup. At first I just stuck something (maybe half of a P-bass pickup) near the bridge and was really surprised at how low the output was (we had already optimised the string materials.) Then I realized that the bow suppressed the up & down component and I needed to make something that heard the side-to-side motion efficiently. I stuck some extra-long Alnico rods through some of those ubiquitous plastic sewing-machine bobbins (which I filled up with 44 gauge wire) and made a humbucker with the rods sticking up between the strings by the bridge; problem solved.

Bob Palmieri

[David Schwab]

Those are some very good points Bob. I always took Bill Bartolini's research at face value, and did some experimenting with different pole shapes myself, as well as various magnet arrangements.

Blades are interesting because you can use a very thin blade, which is hard to do with a round pole, as it gets small in all directions. A 1/16" thin blade will always be under the string when you bend, but a 1/16" round pole wont be.

Regarding bowed instruments, Ned Steinberger made two sets of piezo sensors for his NS instruments because of that issue. The transducer that handled the up and down motion didn't work well when bowed, so he had a second set that handled the sideways motion.

[fieldwrangler]

Those are some very good points Bob. I always took Bill Bartolini's research at face value, and did some experimenting with different pole shapes myself, as well as various magnet arrangements.

Blades are interesting because you can use a very thin blade, which is hard to do with a round pole, as it gets small in all directions. A 1/16" thin blade will always be under the string when you bend, but a 1/16" round pole wont be.

Regarding bowed instruments, Ned Steinberger made two sets of piezo sensors for his NS instruments because of that issue. The transducer that handled the up and down motion didn't work well when bowed, so he had a second set that handled the sideways motion.

David -

Very interesting!

Now maybe I should bring up the issue of the chisel-faced polepieces that Frank Falbo mentioned last week. I always figured that most of the reason for the chisel point was so that when the tine moved around in front of the polepiece (perpendicular to the long axis of the chisel point) it would also be moving closer & farther from the nearest pole surface, and therefore induce more current in the coil than it would with a flat faced pole...

Bob Palmieri

[Peter Naglitsch]

Chisel faced poles have to some success been used for violins. However the poles are usually placed between the strings, thus sensing the sideways motion of the strings better and still sensing pizzicato notes. I experimented a bit with that while trying to make a decent sounding electric pickup for a violin. I gave upp...