OTPG -what is that?

[Possum]

"This is the fuzz pedal he is most associated with. Used in the studio for the first album for Dazed and Confused, How Many More Times and You Shook Me and on stage with Zeppelin from '68 through mid June '69. It does however make a brief appearance at both Montreux shows in August 1971. It was also extensively used pre-Zeppelin with the Yardbirds. The pedal was also used post Zeppelin for the title track on the Plant/Page album "Walking Into Clarksdale" which according to Page, the pedal failed shortly afterwards. "

BBC sessions Live disc 2 was recorded in '71, NO Tonebender (Les Paul). Disc 1 was recorded earlier, LOTS of Tonebender (Tele).

So there is "no PAF sound?" If you can't hear PAF charactersistics that are in every classic rock and blues recording ever done, then any humbucker will be fine for you. I can't believe people keep posting this parroted comment, go play a couple real PAF's, go look on YouTube and find modern players doing demo's of PAF equipped vintage guitars, you can't HEAR it?

[Possum]

August 7th, 1971 - Montreux
Here's what appears to be the out of the blue appearance of the Tonebender at Montreux 8/7/71. Why it shows up I have no clue. His tone at this show is pretty much typical for '71, no trace of a Tonebender-ish or any fuzz sound at all. If you look closely at the pic you'll notice the volume knob looks like it is all the way down, could just be misaligned though. They were in the middle of Dazed and Confused during this picture.

[Ronsonic]

So there is "no PAF sound?" If you can't hear PAF charactersistics that are in every classic rock and blues recording ever done, then any humbucker will be fine for you. I can't believe people keep posting this parroted comment, go play a couple real PAF's, go look on YouTube and find modern players doing demo's of PAF equipped vintage guitars, you can't HEAR it?

As a tech part of my life is an ongoing study of what people do and do not hear and how to communicate it using the English language. Cannot tell you how many times I've seen or been party to a conversation where one is trying to explain some aspect of a sound, whether good, bad or indifferent and trying to get another to hear it. This is sitting face to face, with guitar in hand. Sometimes it's a thing that one takes for granted is a part of the sound so he doesn't even hear it anymore as a sound. Sometimes it's glaringly obvious once pointed out, but wouldn't be noticed otherwise.

Here it is a set of characteristics that are relatively rare, but not entirely unique except in combination that are mixed in with a lot of variable. To try and explain on line is, well, I will be mightily impressed if you can manage to get it into words. To hear it as you plead, someone would have to be listening for those specific things. I will be watching hopeful of being amazed.

[RedHouse]

...If you can't hear PAF charactersistics that are in every classic rock and blues recording ever done...

Every classic rock and blues recording ever done has PAF's in it? wow, you're gonna need to lay-off the herb for a while 'till your hearing comes back buddy.

I can think of many songs by classic rock and blues bands/artists that have no PAF's in them, like Beatles, The Who, Hendrix, Queen, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, T-bone Walker, Buddy Guy, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Credence, CSN&Y, Byrds, Boston, Steve Miller, Doobie Bros, Grand Funk Railroad, Kansas, BOC, Springsteen, Black Sabbath, Mountain, Foreigner, Frampton, Johnny Winter, Rick Derringer, Jethro Tull (Martin Barre) ....just a few off the top of my head.

{Edit} forgot the perenial favorite of mine, Robin Trower!

[David Schwab]

...Jethro Tull (Martin Barre) ...

Now there's an underrated player if I ever heard one. And what a great tone! He used a 1958 les Paul Junior on Aqualung. He got the LP Jr because of Leslie West. he also used a Hornby Skewes treble booster through a Hi-Watt. You see treble boosters coming into play a lot back then. And no wonder everyone jumped on DiMarzio Super Distortions when they came out! Everyone was always looking for a little more boost.

He now plays a PRS.

[JGundry]

BBC sessions Live disc 2 was recorded in '71, NO Tonebender (Les Paul). Disc 1 was recorded earlier, LOTS of Tonebender (Tele).

So there is "no PAF sound?" If you can't hear PAF charactersistics that are in every classic rock and blues recording ever done, then any humbucker will be fine for you. I can't believe people keep posting this parroted comment, go play a couple real PAF's, go look on YouTube and find modern players doing demo's of PAF equipped vintage guitars, you can't HEAR it?

All I can say is if you have any question about what kind of tone you can get with a modified Tone Bender and a Les Paul mess with the circuit yourself and the tone is plain as day when you figure it out. I still find it amazing that people want to judge tone with a photo. The fact is the 71' show you have a photo of is also recorded and it does not have the typical stock Tone Bender sound. Why? Because it is not a stock Tone Bender!! Duh!!! It is even indicated that Page has his own a version of the Tone Bender on a printed ad for the Tone Bender. Tonebenders were custom made for a bunch of players Page being one of them. Page had and has lots of gear including different Tone Benders and at least one of those he used with a Les Paul and apparently still does.

[soundmasterg]

Actually Keith Richards used a PAF equipped Les Paul on some of the earlier Stones recordings, and George Harrison used a 1957 Les Paul with PAFs on much of the later Beatles stuff, including a good lot of Abbey Road and the White Album.

I think Possum was exxagerating a bit as far as every classic rock recording using PAFs, but a real PAF, or a pickup replicating it does sound quite a bit different from you standard humbucker that most people are familiar with. A more single coil style sound, more touch responsive, clearer and cleaner trebles, bass notes that don't mush out, trebles that are never harsh, etc. It is a sound that you know and can pinpoint pretty easily once you've heard it, but if you haven't you may not be able to pick it out. Now that I've been playing with those types of tones for awhile, more standard pickups that don't have those sounds sound less alive and tonally boring to me. It isn't something I would have recognized unless I had been exposed to the real deal though, or unless someone had pointed out the difference.

Greg

[Ronsonic]

Now there's an underrated player if I ever heard one. And what a great tone! He used a 1958 les Paul Junior on Aqualung. He got the LP Jr because of Leslie West. he also used a Hornby Skewes treble booster through a Hi-Watt. You see treble boosters coming into play a lot back then. And no wonder everyone jumped on DiMarzio Super Distortions when they came out! Everyone was always looking for a little more boost.

He now plays a PRS.

He sounded brilliant with the Hamers he was using. Hell, he always sounds brilliant.

[SkinnyWire]

Not much of a sense of humor there, eh Monsieur Herbivore? Anyway. It's to be expected here. Thanks for clearing up the nuances of weed eating for me. I sure feel better about it now.

Oh and, I wasn't mocking anybody. Just stating facts ... facts that appear to completely escape you. Hmmmmmmm .... wonder why?

Anyway, back to your weed trough and research. Off you go then.

[RedHouse]

Actually Keith Richards used a PAF equipped Les Paul on some of the earlier Stones recordings, and George Harrison used a 1957 Les Paul with PAFs on much of the later Beatles stuff, including a good lot of Abbey Road and the White Album.

That's a huge stretch SmG, the Beatles had very little PAF gear in their catalog:

Please Please Me 1963
With The Beatles 1963
A Hard Day's Night 1964
Help! 1965
Rubber Soul 1965
Revolver 1966
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band 1967
Magical Mystery Tour 1967
The Beatles (The White Album) 1968 (2 disc)
Yellow Submarine 1969
Abbey Road 1969
Let It Be 1970

and the Stones? the non-PAF songs outnumber the PAF bearing songs 20:1 or better, so that's kinda silly too.

Rolling Stones 1964
Rolling Stones No.2 1965
Out of Our Heads 1965
December's Children 1965
Aftermath 1966
Between the Buttons 1967
Flowers 1967
Their Satanic Majesties Request 1967
Beggar's Banquet 1968
Let it Bleed 1969
Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out (in concert) 1970
Stone Age 1971
Sticky Fingers 1971
Gimme Shelter 1971
Milestones 1972
Exile On Main Street 1972
Goat's Head Soup 1973
It's Only Rock and Roll 1974
Metamorphosis 1975
Made In The Shade 1975
Black and Blue 1976
Love You Live 1977
Get Stoned 1977
Some Girls 1978
Emotional Rescue 1980
Tattoo You 1981
Undercover 1983
Dirty Work 1986
Steel Wheels 2 3 1989
Voodoo Lounge 1994
Stripped [CD/CD-ROM] 1995
Rock and Roll Circus (live, 1968) 1996
Bridges to Babylon 1997
No Security (live) 1998
Forty Licks [1964-2002] 2002
Live Licks 2004
A Bigger Bang 2005

Not withstanding, yes I know Dave made a Faux Pas, it's just worthy to point out that in fact it's likely that quite a bit more "Classic Rock" and "Blues" tracks were actually done w/o Gibson's finest. I'm not trying to be argumentative with Possum, in fact I love the old PAF slingers as much as anyone, there's just so much more to rock and blues than PAF's.

[soundmasterg]

That's a huge stretch SmG, the Beatles had very little PAF gear in their catalog:


and the Stones? the non-PAF songs outnumber the PAF bearing songs 20:1 or better, so that's kinda silly too.


Not withstanding, yes I know Dave made a Faux Pas, it's just worthy to point out that in fact it's likely that quite a bit more "Classic Rock" and "Blues" tracks were actually done w/o Gibson's finest. I'm not trying to be argumentative with Possum, in fact I love the old PAF slingers as much as anyone, there's just so much more to rock and blues than PAF's.

I completely agree that there are tons of classic rock and blues out there that PAF's were used in, and that PAF's are not the be all and end all of music. You didn't have to list all those two bands albums out, but thanks for going to the effort...haha. I was just saying that Keith Richards is well known as the first of the British cats back then to be using a PAF equipped guitar, probably in '64 or so. I have no idea what songs he used it for, but it was being used as early as then. George Harrison was also well known to have a 1957 Les Paul that he named Lucy that was used extensively on the later Beatles albums, specifically Abbey Road and the White Album. It used to be a goldtop, was refinished to the cherry red finish by the previous owner, who didn't like the sound anymore and sold it. Eric Clapton bought it then gave it to Harrison as a gift. I didn't say that those two players used PAF's exclusively or more than any other guitars or anything like that. I just said that they used them...in your previous post you seemed to insinuate that neither band had used guitars with PAF's on them. Certainly the Beatles used lots of Rickenbackers, Gretsches, Epiphone Casinos, etc., but they also used SG's, Teles, Strats, and yes, some PAF equipped guitars too. Its all good though.

Greg

[RedHouse]

I completely agree that there are tons of classic rock and blues out there that PAF's were used in, and that PAF's are not the be all and end all of music. You didn't have to list all those two bands albums out, but thanks for going to the effort...haha. I was just saying that Keith Richards is well known as the first of the British cats back then to be using a PAF equipped guitar, probably in '64 or so. I have no idea what songs he used it for, but it was being used as early as then. George Harrison was also well known to have a 1957 Les Paul that he named Lucy that was used extensively on the later Beatles albums, specifically Abbey Road and the White Album. It used to be a goldtop, was refinished to the cherry red finish by the previous owner, who didn't like the sound anymore and sold it. Eric Clapton bought it then gave it to Harrison as a gift. I didn't say that those two players used PAF's exclusively or more than any other guitars or anything like that. I just said that they used them...in your previous post you seemed to insinuate that neither band had used guitars with PAF's on them. Certainly the Beatles used lots of Rickenbackers, Gretsches, Epiphone Casinos, etc., but they also used SG's, Teles, Strats, and yes, some PAF equipped guitars too. Its all good though.

Greg

I agree Greg, it's all good.

...in your previous post you seemed to insinuate that neither band had used guitars with PAF's on them...

Didn't mean to insinuate that when I said in my post above:

...I can think of many songs by...

But again, it's all good!

[David Schwab]

George Harrison used a 1957 Les Paul with PAFs on much of the later Beatles stuff, including a good lot of Abbey Road and the White Album.

Did he? I always saw pictures of him with a brown Tele, as used on Let it Be. He also used his '64 SG on the White Album. But he did of course have the cherry red LP and used it on stuff like Revolution and While My Guitar Gently Weeps. I wouldn't say he used it on most of the later Beatles stuff.




But needles to say, he had a lot of guitars.



George Harrison's Let It Be Guitar - Auction

[soundmasterg]

Yeah he used that Tele on the Let it Be album, and then gave it away. I think he gave it to Delaney Bramlett from Delaney and Bonnie. The Les Paul was used on much of Abbey Road, (Something, The End, I Want You, Octopus's Garden, some others too) and a couple songs on the White Album. Its all in the Beatles Gear and Recording the Beatles books, which were researched extensively by the authors. The Recording the Beatles book is fabulous by the way if you've never seen it. Its expensive but very much worth it if you're into recording and old recording gear at all. The Les Paul was stolen in the 70's and some Mexican dude bought it from the LA Guitar Center, and then wanted a king's ransom to give it back. George was clearly still pissed about it years later, even though he did get the guitar back.

Greg

[David Schwab]

Yeah, I read George gave him another Les Paul and a Bass to get the guitar back! You can hear that's a Paul on Something, etc.

Roger Rossmeisl actually made the rosewood tele for George. I knew someone that had one of those many years ago. It was a great sounding guitar, much fatter sounding than most Teles.