Finally got a counter.

[Ward]

Long story short, I've been winding for myself mostly for 5 years, all the time I didn't have a counter so I would wind to dcr. I've read countless times on this forum where it is said, always wind to turns count and not DCR.
Well I now have a counter on my winder, had it now for a few months and I have wound a few pickups with it now.
What I don't understand is this:
If I use a 42 gauge wire that has thick insulation and or the wire is just thick to start with even though it is supposed to be 42awg, if I put say 5,000 turns on a humbucker bobbin which is what is recommended for a vintage style humbucker, the DCR reads only 3.3K, so if I continue to wind the other bobbin to 5,000 turns I will have a pickup that measures 6.6K, what am I supposed to do here, with this particular wire, if I put 6,000 winds on the humbucker bobbin it then measures 4K, the bobbin is full at 6,000 turns. The same thing with strat singles using Mojo HF42, I have specs that I sourced on the net that say with .0030'' wire, 7956 turns should come to 5.76k, with the Mojo HF 42 wire I need to put 8,900 turns to get 5.75K, the same thing I have noticed with my P90s, the spec I'm told is for 10,000 turns at around 8.5k, using some .063mm wire that I know to have a thick insulation, I wound 11,900 turns to get 8.1K. So what is the story with all this.
What I have been doing is to wind a particular pickup to the required DCR, observe the turns count and write that down for that particular wire and pickup BUT, should I be still winding by turns count even though I get a way low DCR reading. Is all my wire crap and I should dump it? It seems that turns count doesn't mean much if the wire is all over the place in thickness??? Or is DCR to be completely ignored.
I'm winding quit slow at around 600rpm and I'm pretty sure the counter is working properley, at least to the point where I can duplicate DCR with X turns. So what's the go with all of this, if a P-90 is supposed to have 10,000 turns, should I just wind that amount a not worry that the DRC is low?

[soundmasterg]

Maybe you need to wind with more tension?

[Ward]

Thanks but after 5 years I know how much tension I can get away with before curlup sets in.

[the great waldo]

Hi Ward

I would recommend that you check your meter, I have 3 different meters Extratech Fluke and another cheaper analog meter they all give different readings. The extratech gives a 20 % different reading when set on 1khz than when set on 120hz.
Alternatively your counter might be out, what counter is it? 8900 turns with mojo hf42 should be giving you about 6.3- 6.5k ohms depending on how tight you wind. Or it could be crap wire as you say. Where did you get it from. Mojo Broccotts and wires.co.uk have pretty good wire. Mojo scores well for vintage wire.

CHEERS

Andrew

[copperheadroads]

i agree with with the great waldo that your counter might be out.
with the counter did you try to wind 6000 turns on bobbin (might be a good test if you dont mind wasting a little wire ) the mojo bobbins will be really full with 6000 turns of spn
what sensor are you using ?,

[Ward]

Hi Ward

I would recommend that you check your meter, I have 3 different meters Extratech Fluke and another cheaper analog meter they all give different readings. The extratech gives a 20 % different reading when set on 1khz than when set on 120hz.
Alternatively your counter might be out, what counter is it? 8900 turns with mojo hf42 should be giving you about 6.3- 6.5k ohms depending on how tight you wind. Or it could be crap wire as you say. Where did you get it from. Mojo Broccotts and wires.co.uk have pretty good wire. Mojo scores well for vintage wire.

CHEERS

Andrew

Hi Andrew, thanks for your post, I have two meters, both are extremely close to each other. My counter is one of these
4 Digital Red LED Count Panel Meter Counter Totalizer - eBay Relays, Timers Counters, Industrial Automation, Control, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 16-Oct-10 01:16:37 AEDST)
with a photo interrupter. I suppose I'll need to at least wind a couple of hundred turns and then count them as I unwind them to give me some idea of how the counter is going. Thanks, Nic.

[Ward]

i agree with with the great waldo that your counter might be out.
with the counter did you try to wind 6000 turns on bobbin (might be a good test if you dont mind wasting a little wire ) the mojo bobbins will be really full with 6000 turns of spn
what sensor are you using ?,

I put 6,000 on a mojo 53mm bobbin and it was chockers. That was with mojo 42PE. See my earlier post re, what counter and sensor.Thanks.

[the great waldo]

I put 6,000 on a mojo 53mm bobbin and it was chockers. That was with mojo 42PE.

Hi Nic

Thats about right, what Dc resistance did you get ?
Cheers

Andrew

[Ward]

Hi Nic

Thats about right, what Dc resistance did you get ?
Cheers

Andrew

4K.

[copperheadroads]

your not winding pickups outdoors in the arctic are you LOL

[Joe Gwinn]

Hi Andrew, thanks for your post, I have two meters, both are extremely close to each other. My counter is one of these
4 Digital Red LED Count Panel Meter Counter Totalizer - eBay Relays, Timers Counters, Industrial Automation, Control, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 16-Oct-10 01:16:37 AEDST)
with a photo interrupter. I suppose I'll need to at least wind a couple of hundred turns and then count them as I unwind them to give me some idea of how the counter is going. Thanks, Nic.

One thing to be aware of is that many counter circuits miss counts if one is above some speed, so winding a few hundred turns won't necessarily tell you much.

When you rotate the bobbin by hand, during what fraction of a revolution is the photo interrupter saying that it sees light?


As for the conflicting resistance readings, buy a 1% resistor of value somewhere around 10 Kohms and see which meters get it right.

[the great waldo]

4K.

Hi Nic

Somethings not right, you should be getting a higher resistance reading. Maybe someones marked the wire wrongly and its thicker than should be, although youŽd be hard pushed to to get 6k turns of thicker wire onto the mojo bobbin.

Cheers
Andrew

[Spence]

Long story short, I've been winding for myself mostly for 5 years, all the time I didn't have a counter so I would wind to dcr. I've read countless times on this forum where it is said, always wind to turns count and not DCR.
Well I now have a counter on my winder, had it now for a few months and I have wound a few pickups with it now.
What I don't understand is this:
If I use a 42 gauge wire that has thick insulation and or the wire is just thick to start with even though it is supposed to be 42awg, if I put say 5,000 turns on a humbucker bobbin which is what is recommended for a vintage style humbucker, the DCR reads only 3.3K, so if I continue to wind the other bobbin to 5,000 turns I will have a pickup that measures 6.6K, what am I supposed to do here, with this particular wire, if I put 6,000 winds on the humbucker bobbin it then measures 4K, the bobbin is full at 6,000 turns. The same thing with strat singles using Mojo HF42, I have specs that I sourced on the net that say with .0030'' wire, 7956 turns should come to 5.76k, with the Mojo HF 42 wire I need to put 8,900 turns to get 5.75K, the same thing I have noticed with my P90s, the spec I'm told is for 10,000 turns at around 8.5k, using some .063mm wire that I know to have a thick insulation, I wound 11,900 turns to get 8.1K. So what is the story with all this.
What I have been doing is to wind a particular pickup to the required DCR, observe the turns count and write that down for that particular wire and pickup BUT, should I be still winding by turns count even though I get a way low DCR reading. Is all my wire crap and I should dump it? It seems that turns count doesn't mean much if the wire is all over the place in thickness??? Or is DCR to be completely ignored.
I'm winding quit slow at around 600rpm and I'm pretty sure the counter is working properley, at least to the point where I can duplicate DCR with X turns. So what's the go with all of this, if a P-90 is supposed to have 10,000 turns, should I just wind that amount a not worry that the DRC is low?

Ask your wire supplier what the manufacturing tolerance is. You'll be amazed. It's so large that a reel of 42 may be closer to 41 or 43 gauge. It can go either way.This will be why you have noticed the discrepancy with turn counts.

[Ward]

One thing to be aware of is that many counter circuits miss counts if one is above some speed, so winding a few hundred turns won't necessarily tell you much.

When you rotate the bobbin by hand, during what fraction of a revolution is the photo interrupter saying that it sees light?


As for the conflicting resistance readings, buy a 1% resistor of value somewhere around 10 Kohms and see which meters get it right.

Thanks Joe, the interrupter sees light for half the turn, the semi circle that goes through the interrupter is about 3'' diameter.
I'm winding at low speeds, 6/800 rpm, anyway, I will wind up a few hundred turns and then unwind them by hand to see how many actually are there. It's hard to see the counter being erratic if I can accurately duplicate dcr with X turns though, I would expect that to be erratic if the counter was missing turns?
I've checked both my meters on 1% resistors and they both look good. Thanks to all who have replied. Nic.

[Ward]

Right, I've just discovered the problem. The counter seems to skip 10 and goes from 9 to 11, then it skips 20 and goes from 19 to 21 etc. This will account for 10% extra turns count. Great, I suppose this one is kaput, I wonder if I get another one if it will be good.