Challenging and exciting new design needs a guru !

[David King]

Good luck with these. Allan sure poured his heart into them with not much to show for it in the end. I can certainly sympathize with that.

[salvarsan]

Why is everyone beating around the bush about the guitar?

It's a Gittler.

I suspect folks were hesitating because they _like_ the Gittler and wanted it to succeed without hindrance, and so discretion followed.

Of course, you've fixed that for us, and the cat is well and firmly out of the bag.

I like the Gittler and want to see it revived. I would dearly love to hear of Ulrich Teuffel introducing himself at the Gittler booth at NAMM 2011.

The original Gittler patent 4079652 describes the pickups well enough for us to make reasonable inferences.

[salvarsan]

While it would be illuminating to discuss facts and inferences about the Gittler pickup
from the original patent 4079652, it's more fun to sling shi... uh... engage in self-indulgent
narcissistic ranting.

For all the Bauhaus "form-follows-function" praise over the Gittler form, the pickup design
ruthlessly subordinates function to aesthetic form, so much so that anyone seeking to
recreate the Gittler would ardently desire to improve the pickups, as Sashua clearly does.

From the 1978 patent, you see that it's a long thin magnet in a thin tube mounted parallel underneath the strings.

Not obvious?

Imagine a single-string single-pole pickup.
Stretch it up several inches tall.
Now lay it on its side lengthwise under a string.

(sigh)

The magnet's entire length was covered in 10k-15k winds of #42 (most likely), but the magnet/coil ends, the last 1/2", produce the bulk of the signal because of the very polar magnetic field distribution.

The pickup cover is also a structural member, a stainless steel tube 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID.
Whatever improvements can be made must fit in a 1/4" bore -- function subordinated to form.

...of course, all the foregoing assumes slavish copying of the original without taking advantage of 35 years of technological advances.

[sashua]

As discretion is out the window and there is nothing much to effectively take away from this expedition I will now take my leave. The Gittler family does not wish to see the wrong kind of publicity and there is nothing good coming from this.
I thank you David and Daniel for your kind words and thoughts. Jason Lollar was also very kind and forthcoming.
For the naysayers here - limited market, niche product - I know.....just wait.

[Chuck H]

Regardless of what you may think of my position from my earlier posts I am a thinking person, not a ranting one. That is in fact the reason for my previous direction.

Sashua, I would strongly urge that you continue to follow this thread. If the original pickup design is dicussed you can bet that in light of the context improvements will also be theorized. It may be of interest to you. Any previous patents are long in the public domain so anything discussed hear could be a real launching pad. These posters will happily discuss possibilities for free, it's what we do here. In the end there is nothing to stop your company from expounding on the ideas and seeking a patent that will ensure exclusivity for proprietary technology.

If my original assumption was correct there isn't much difference between that possibility and the offer in your OP. It no longer matters. I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that this is a public forum. Any ideas discussed here usually stay here with little outside attention and would certainly have limited usefulness for other, more conventional guitar designs.

I do know that a slighly more conventional "pear shaped" guitar with a more traditional neck was developed by Gittler at one point. This would seem to make it a more accessible guitar for the average player. I don't think I personally would be interested in the skeletonized neck thing. But "I" may not be your market. Anyway, A different kind of guitar with a different kind of pickup system that is accessable to players familiar with more standard instruments would certainly have some appeal.

Also, there is both positive and negative happening in this thread. More positive than negative as I see it. Do you really think any public discussion of your product will go differently? You ARE planning to market a different sort of guitar than most players are familiar with. You really need to grow a thicker skin and learn to roll with it. Try to take the good where it comes.

If you can't be accountable for your original intentions or hasty writing (whatever it actually was) and also handle a little opposition then you won't like promoting an unusual product at all. Step up and believe in your position as well as being accountable for your failings. And stay confident the whole time. It will serve you better than your ego might allow you to believe.

[David Schwab]

If I get a Teuffel Birdfish, will I sound like SRV?

If you can sound like SRV on a Strat, I don't see why not. If you can't sound like SRV on a Strat, then never mind.

people get too hung up on this guitar sounds like this, and that guitar sounds like that. Good players can make anything sound like anything else, within reason (and scale length limitations).

But then SRV clones wont buy one of those. Or a Gittler either.

[kevinT]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. And it's a little disturbing to me that folks got their manties in such a twist regarding this request that they felt the need to beat down and chase away a potential member that could of contributed significantly to our knowledge base on this forum.

Let's not forget that a forum's goal is to bring on board new folks with differrent fields of experience so they can share their knowledge with everyone and we can all benefit.

This kind of stuff will discourage other folks from coming here to this forum to solicit work. I'm always interested in hearing about potential jobs like this one and I don't mind what this gentleman has done. If you're not interested, there is no need to respond to him. And no need to be nasty.

In contrast, these kinds of deals are negotiable. If you're interested but don't like his terms, provide a counter offer and commuicate your terms and what is required in order for you to have a consultation and/or take on this job.

[Ward]

+1 what he said.

[copperheadroads]

Very well put Kevin

[Chuck H]

It's only common vigilance to act when something is out of whack or someone is out of line. The alternative is to let these things go with no effort to improve anything and end up with anarchy. Did you read the OP??? it basically says 'sign an NDA, tell us how to perfect our product for free and we can discuss future payment'. It was conceded that this was worded "hastily". OK, right?!? REALLY??? This guy came out of the gate asking for all he could possibly get for free (period). I'm sick of beating around the bush for the sake of etiquette. I felt (and still do) that I was being vigilant and defending the honor of the excellent posters this forum has amassed by pointing it out. I would hate for some nieve individual to get rooked putting in time and effort that benefits this guy for zero compensation. I have been that nieve guy and I didn't like it. How hard would it have been, really, to word his request in a way that offered some respect? 'My company is working on reintroducing the Gittler guitar. We would like to interview knowledgable techs to act on a consulting basis.' That's not how it went down though. And now we see this defensive attitude. I can't be the only one who recognizes this. I know a guy who opperates his life on the philosophy "you don't get anything if you don't ask." So he commonly asked for things that are unreasonable or right on the edge of unreasonable. Of course he is more successful than I am so any moral argument to this goes right out the window due to my lack of credibility/financial status. It's a sleazy game becoming successful. Right or wrong is up to the individual I suppose but some small timer trying to puff up like a corporate bigshot and dangling carrots just rubs me wrong. So as far as welcoming new contributors into the forum, well, I may be alone and I will back out now but we should be selective. I still think this guy is shinnanigins. You have the right to make up your own mind.

[StarryNight]

as readng this thread is about as fun as sticking pins in my eyes, i'd just like to say that this is one of the most beautiful guitars i've ever seen.

[David Schwab]

as readng this thread is about as fun as sticking pins in my eyes, i'd just like to say that this is one of the most beautiful guitars i've ever seen.

That's nice. I've never seen one of those before. Is that a Gittler?

This is the one in question:

[LtKojak]

Did you read the OP??? it basically says 'sign an NDA, tell us how to perfect our product for free and we can discuss future payment'. It was conceded that this was worded "hastily". OK, right?!? REALLY??? This guy came out of the gate asking for all he could possibly get for free (period).

To be honest, I thought the same as well.

Here in Italy is common practice and I'm sick and tired of it as well. When I'm approached in this way I tend to react from mildly unpolite to downward plain nasty and even physically violent if insisted upon.

If you don't find an extraordinaire player making out of this world music only possible being made in such an instrument, I just don't see how it would generate sales from other musicians following the same lead.

Not even the Chapman Stick sells a lot, which is kind of the most consolidated product in the market and even great players like Tony Levin plays it live all the time.

I don't see a bright future for an instrument like this, not even if it sounds like a choir of angels that came directly from Heaven in God's name at God's order.

My two pennies worth...

[salvarsan]

Rather than indulge in a fit of pique, I will add some practical thoughts.

Gittler pickups will only fit in a Gittler Guitar.
It needs restating that the Gittler is more a work of art more than it is a guitar. Having read the patent closely, I'm confident that a pickup for the Gittler form factor has no application elsewhere. Who else would want it? An NDA on a Gittler pickup is redundant because of this hardware lock-in.

Non-disclosure here may have been a bit of kneejerk over-cautiousness on the CEO's part and historically, unless beaten with a 2x4, CEO's are not expected to understand technicians, engineers, or craftsmen.

Most pickup designs are boringly similar.
The point was long ago reached where pickup feature differentiation became a narcissism of small differences pushed by economic necessities.

I would *love* to work on Gittler pickups for the simple reason that they aren't another minute tweak on a another soporifically boring PAF/strat/tele design.

[big_teee]

That's nice. I've never seen one of those before. Is that a Gittler?

This is the one in question:

Looks like something you would see from an old 70's Star Trek Re-Run Episode.
Terry