Challenging and exciting new design needs a guru !

[big_teee]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I thought all sides made a whole lot about very little.
Like I said very early in the thread.
This is a discussion forum, and we discuss things here, good and bad.
If your going to post on a world wide forum, like this one.
Expect all aspects of the issue to be discussed thoroughly!!!
Later,
Terry

[Chuck H]

But both guitars aren't built by Allan Gittler. Gittler guitars were built by Allan Gittler before he changed his name and left the country (and I suppose whomever has used or will use the Gittler name since that time). He basically abandoned Gittler as a company at that time. The instruments made since he changed his name to Avraham Bar Rashi seem to be called "Bar Rashi's" and are different construction wise from Gittler guitars too. And I agree that the Bar Rashi in the pic is beautiful. And it looks lke it may even be comfortable enough to play.

[David Schwab]

But both guitars aren't built by Allan Gittler. Gittler guitars were built by Allan Gittler before he changed his name and left the country (and I suppose whomever has used or will use the Gittler name since that time). He basically abandoned Gittler as a company at that time. The instruments made since he changed his name to Avraham Bar Rashi seem to be called "Bar Rashi's" and are different construction wise from Gittler guitars too. And I agree that the Bar Rashi in the pic is beautiful. And it looks lke it may even be comfortable enough to play.

But it's still the same person.

In either event, his son is involved with the new company, so they are Gittlers.

I was going to build myself one once.

[salvarsan]

My understanding is that the US-made Gittler guitars from ~'75 through '83, all 60 of them, as specified in the patent and depicted in the stainless steel fishbone photo, are referred to as a "Gittler".

Everything later came from Israel. The Astron-manufactured fishbone so disappointed Bar Rashi né Gittler that he disassociated his name from it.

A still later guitar, the curved wooden body with a continuous nylon filament serving all the fret positions, was a creation for which the phrase sui generis is appropriate despite the fact that a second one, left-handed, was made.

You all could be clearer about which you're writing about -- fishbone, rip-off, or wood.

[Chuck H]

The wooden one in the pick is made from olive and I can't quite tell but it looks to me as if it uses the nylon fret (frets?). It's said by the museum to be a Bar Rashi circa 1990.

David, yes they are the same person of course. But I didn't invent the distinction, it just is. Of course if you shouted "ALLAN" at him in a crowd I'll bet he turns around

I wonder what kind of strings he specs on the nylon fret guitars. I'll bet the fret is designed to be user replaceable but still. I'm thinking of SS frets for my guitar. Nylon just seems too soft.

[salvarsan]

David, yes they are the same person of course. But I didn't invent the distinction, it just is. Of course if you shouted "ALLAN" at him in a crowd I'll bet he turns around

This being Hallowe'en, he just might turn around if he was a zombie.

<mode="Bones: Mccoy;">
"He's dead, Jim."
</mode>

[Chuck H]

Ahh, good point. I have one too but I hide it under a hat.

[David Schwab]

My understanding is that the US-made Gittler guitars from ~'75 through '83, all 60 of them, as specified in the patent and depicted in the stainless steel fishbone photo, are referred to as a "Gittler".

Everything later came from Israel. The Astron-manufactured fishbone so disappointed Bar Rashi né Gittler that he disassociated his name from it.

A still later guitar, the curved wooden body with a continuous nylon filament serving all the fret positions, was a creation for which the phrase sui generis is appropriate despite the fact that a second one, left-handed, was made.

You all could be clearer about which you're writing about -- fishbone, rip-off, or wood.

The Minimalist Guitar of Allan Gittler (Avraham Bar Rashi)

[Mike Sulzer]

About the pickups:

If I understand correctly, each string had a pickup running underneath for several inches. That is, a long thin magnet under each string with a coil around it. If this succeeded in sampling such a long section of the string uniformly, then this would filter out too many of the highs, and so I assume that it really did not work in that way.

I cannot see anything wrong with making much shorter pickups in the tubes. I do not see much room there for electronics, but it would be good to have preamps.

[salvarsan]

Thanks for wanting to talk about the technology, Mike.

The original pickup was ~10000 winds around a ~4" stack of 1/8" diameter Alnico 5 rods.
The mag field was therefore non-uniform and concentrated at the ends of the stack.

A 304 stainless steel tube of inside diameter 0.25 inches housed the pickup.
Someone else has likened it to a 10000:1 transformer with the '1' winding (i.e., the tube) shorted.

No surprise that someone wants to improve it.

PS: Mike, are you the guy who did a piece on voltage regulators for Audio Amateur way back? If so, bravo.

[Mark Hammer]

It's kind of ironic, in this context, that the name Gittler chose when he moved to Israel, and had what I gather was a spiritual awakening, was Bar Rashi (son of Rashi). Rashi is widely considered as one of the great commentators on Judaic law (Rashi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), which means that he provided articulate and reasoned interpretation of the original sacred texts, and how the precepts were to be extrapolated. Not exactly arguing over I.P. law, but sort of analogous.

[Mike Sulzer]

Thanks for wanting to talk about the technology, Mike.

The original pickup was ~10000 winds around a ~4" stack of 1/8" diameter Alnico 5 rods.
The mag field was therefore non-uniform and concentrated at the ends of the stack.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11473[/ATTACH]
A 304 stainless steel tube of inside diameter 0.25 inches housed the pickup.
Someone else has likened it to a 10000:1 transformer with the '1' winding (i.e., the tube) shorted.

No surprise that someone wants to improve it.

PS: Mike, are you the guy who did a piece on voltage regulators for Audio Amateur way back? If so, bravo.

I see; so the magnets were magnetized as rods must be, that is, along the length. So in effect this is a way to make a neck and bridge pickup that are always both connected with a whole lot of wasted resources in between. Yes, I can see why some one might want to do something else.

Thank you, yes, that was my article. I believe that Walt Jung made a better regulator later. With tube or solid state, a good power supply is always important for best fidelity. I even like regulated power suplpies in guitar amps, but not everyone does.

[salvarsan]

I see; so the magnets were magnetized as rods must be, that is, along the length. So in effect this is a way to make a neck and bridge pickup that are always both connected with a whole lot of wasted resources in between. Yes, I can see why some one might want to do something else.

This stuff falls out so self-evidently when you see the mag field contour. I regret not charging money for what was only 30 minutes effort but, frankly, interpreting the Gittler patent was much more time consuming.

Thank you, yes, that was my article. I believe that Walt Jung made a better regulator later. With tube or solid state, a good power supply is always important for best fidelity. I even like regulated power supplies in guitar amps, but not everyone does.

The important thing is that you put a good idea out there that got people interested in the concept and, less frequently, pursuing it enough to make improvements.

I have a Jung-Didden power supply because you made your idea public first.

[salvarsan]

The exegesis of the Sulzer Regulator is covered here:
Op-Amp Based Linear Regulators

[Rick Turner]

The original pickup is a great example of function following form...

Oops...

A slot would take care of the shorted turn aspect...