Tele bridge base plates... why?

[Zhangliqun]

I have no idea about Leo's original intent but the idea that the plate would focus the (A3) magnets and counter their weakness at all seems strange to me. I offer no-plate Tele bridge pu's for metalheads or other high gain players partly to remove the squeal potential but also because in my experience, in the absence of the plate, the pickup is VERY noticeably brighter and louder.

The plate seems to suck some of the magnetic field away from the strings and dilute the intensity of the field some, which has the happy effect of softening that ice-pick spike that is much more of a problem with Strat bridge pu's. I think the steel surround bridge also spreads the field around the strings some and has a similar softening effect.

[jason lollar]

leo did have some concern with shielding and thats why he used brass plates under P bass pickups and under strat pickgaurds and why he would have grounded a tele nck cover. The corresponding lap steel pickup- the champion doesnt have a steel baseplate- its is essentially a tele bridge pickup though which many have been stolen from the lap steels and converted over to a tele. I have said this before and others dont agree but the only year i have found much alnico 3 was 1954, it so happens the 54 stringmaster had metal pickup covers and copper plated steel baseplates- very unusual.
anyone can measure the inductance difference with a steel baseplate, it is measureable but wether its a dramatic difference enough to plainly hear everytime its used in different applications is a different story. its really hard to second guess why they did what they did

[Possum]

I don't think any of this is correct. If you read the history, Fender called the base plates "elevator plates." Its only purpose was stability for the 3 screw mounting system for adjustments. If it was for grounding they wouldn't have taped over the poles, it doesn't make sense to do that if you're trying to ground the pickup. They waxed the pickup with the plate on so that should stop any squeal by sealing it in wax. The other effects were probably unintentional. I don't recall reading in any of the history books from Forrest White and the others saying anything different.

[Alex R]

That seems likely to me, possum. Anchoring steel strings with a lot of tension and a pull parallel to the surface, onto a solid body, but with the necessity of elevating the anchor point a little way above the surface, creating a lot of potentially destructive leverage, would be a major concern in developing this early solid body instrument. The fear would be that the bridge might start to lift under the tension, expensive instruments start to come back for repair, and the firm then getting a rep for unreliability. Extending the anchor plate under the strings a few inches looks to me like a way of countering the tendency of the strings to lever a bridge off the body. David Schwab's steel guitar's bridge looks like it's aimed in the same way as a reliable way to anchor strings.

Occam's razor and all that - this looks like the simplest explanation, but also it takes into account the pioneering nature of the first tele/broadcaster designs. Because they were so successful it's easy to forget that they are also first attempts at a new idea. Anchoring strings through and under the body, and combining this with a whammy system, is a later, more complicated development, but the metal plate extending under the strings is the simplest and probably cheapest solution. Later designers might discover that you could get away with a shorter plate, but when you are dealing with engineering imponderables like how long it might take to loosen a woodscrew with a 90 degree pull on it 24/7 along with an unknowable amount of vibration, putting in a little more metal and getting some distance between the screw positions looks like a cheap belt and braces way to a solid reliable solution.

[Possum]

Oooops you got off on the wrong track, we were talking about Tele bridge pickup baseplates, not the actual bridge saddle unit. The baseplates were called elevator plates back then. There are about four Fender history books written by Carlson, Forrest White, and a couple other important people who were at Fender in in the beginning, I think its important to read everything one can get their hands on if you're making replica products, there's important information in all those books. It is possible Leo noticed certain benefits to using a steel elevator plate, who really knows, because they could have used brass plates just as easily, but again steel is more difficult to strip out the screw holes.

[Alex R]

aaaaah I see

[David Schwab]

It is possible Leo noticed certain benefits to using a steel elevator plate, who really knows, because they could have used brass plates just as easily, but again steel is more difficult to strip out the screw holes.

Brass is not magnetic. Clearly the plate affects the tone of the pickup because it's magnetic. So does the whole bridge assembly. He could have made that from brass also.

[Possum]

Sure it affects the tone but was it intentional, with a name like "elevator plate" it doesn't seem like it was designed to affect the tone. So did he use steel for stronger support? Brass would have been just as good for grounding. I'm trying to remember what the very first tele type pickups had, they were first used in lap steels, don't remember if they had a baseplate or not. OK, I found them, no baseplate and they were only 2 adjustment screws, or screwed into the wood. Even the Tele bass pickup had no baseplate and was 2 adjuster screws. I think the elevator plate was made of steel for strong support because of the 3 screw adjustments so the screws wouldn't strip out the fiber. If it was for grounding them all those would have had grounding plates on them. The only other uses of steel baseplates I've seen were in stuff like the Stratotone pickups where the alnico bar magnets were real short, you need a steel plate in those or the magnet doesn't hold its charge and is very weak without the plate.

[David Schwab]

Sure it affects the tone but was it intentional...

Well that's the question. He didn't use a steel plate under the neck pickup, but he did have a cover over that. So the whole bridge assembly, including the "ash tray" cover, might have been for shielding. Maybe he went with steel for magnetic shielding purposes? It would place steel over and under the pickup when the cover was on. Who knows. Brass is certainly easier to work with than steel, so I think he used steel on purpose.

As I postulated earlier, the Tele bridge assembly is very similar to the bridge/pickup assemblies on lap steels. The early electrics had a lot of metal around the knobs and pickup, etc., because they thought they needed the ground plane, so it was like an amp chassis. On his later guitars he dropped that whole concept.

[big_teee]

Here's a real cool vid by GE Smith, about his sig. tele.
It has the bridge pickup like the old lap steel.
Lots of tele info here.
The G.E. Smith Telecaster® - YouTube
I watch it every now and then just to watch him play.
T

[nickc35]

Great video Terry. I always liked G.E. Smith. Thanks for sharing.

[David Schwab]

Here's a real cool vid by GE Smith, about his sig. tele.
It has the bridge pickup like the old lap steel.
Lots of tele info here.
The G.E. Smith Telecaster® - YouTube
I watch it every now and then just to watch him play.
T

No, it has a Tele bridge pickup. It just happens to be screwed into the wood like an old lap steel.

I think those cut off bridges are ugly.

G.E.'s a great player. He needed to tune up a little better though.

[rjb]

G.E. Smith sidetrack

Here's a real cool vid by GE Smith, about his sig. tele.
It has the bridge pickup like the old lap steel.

Can someone tell me what he used as a slide on that lap steel?
It wasn't a traditional "bullet" slide or Stevens bar.
Maybe the handle from a straight-edged razor?

[rjb]

G.E.'s a great player. He needed to tune up a little better though.

How can you be in tune with one of those 3-saddle bridges?

[David Schwab]

Can someone tell me what he used as a slide on that lap steel?
It wasn't a traditional "bullet" slide or a Stevens bar.
Maybe the handle from a straight-edged razor?

It's the slides that came with lap steels. I used to have a Harmony lap steel and it had a thin slide like that.

I did a quick Google search. You can see the flat ones here:

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